[Peter_S]

Hi everybody. I've got a pair of Avalon Eidelon Diamonds, and I am wanting to start streaming the Metropolitan opera on my system. I'd like to expand it to have a center channel. I don't have the money to purchase an Eidelon center speaker, even if there was one! But there isn't. I was wondering whether it would make sense to build a center channel using Acutron mid base drivers. For instance, a 7 inch driver installed in a vented box would have a frequency response from around 50 to 3000 Hz. Does it make sense to purchase one or two of these drivers and make a center channel out of them? I know very little about home theater center channel speakers. Would I need a tweeter? I could not afford the same diamond tweeter that's in the Eidelon. If I must have a tweeter, what would be most cost-effective? Do I need one or two midbass speakers? Is this a dumb idea? Or a good idea? What types of crossover components would I need? Thanks for any input in advance. Peter

[FullRangeMan]

DIY always make sense, great value per $.
Its Home Theater just form films or also music??
You want hi SPL ? In this case I would use some pro full
range.
http://www.parts-express.com/prv-audio-8mr600-ndy-8-neodymium-midbass-midrange-woofer-8-ohm--294-2715
For low SPL or small room I would use a hi-fi FR as Visaton B200 or similar.
Bass Reflex enclousure is the way, I could not use tweeters I hate all them.
Regards

[Peter_S]

Films and music, in the sense that I will be streaming the Metropolitan opera. But other music will be two channel listening. My thought in using the accustom midbass driver is to get close to the sound of the Eidelon  diamond speakers, so there is a consistency between the center channel/Right channels.

[Carl V]

Nice speakers.

imho, You should contact Rick Craig of SELAH Audio.
he's on this site.  He has done many custom designs.
In fact he did a custom Center for a DIY guy in Canada
Wavecor-Accuton-Scan-Speak CC
with similar drivers & performance goals as yours.
Another similar design.
http://www.selahaudio.com/lineup/#/magnifico/

Of course there is a VERY nice & BIG SALK sound SS-8 Center
for sale presently which would compliment your Speakers as well.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=130665.0

Good luck. That Merry Widow Production looks good.  I like Ms. Fleming.

I often go to one of our HD Cinemas to watch these productions. SOUND
& Visuals are pretty darned good.

[Peter_S]

I spoke with the folks at Madisound, and I think this is the way to go.  I can get a Accuton mid or mid/bass driver for around $300-$400, they can design and build a crossover for me, which leaves me the choice between tweeters.  Don't want to pay $2k for a diamond tweeter.  Could go beryllium for around $400, or silk dome for around $200.  Want it to not stand out as very different from the diamond tweeter.  Any thoughts?

Thanks, Peter

[TF1216]

As far as I know Madisound does not build the speaker after doing the software/crossover simulations.  The speaker will not be as good as one done by someone like Jim Salk or Selah Audio because they take the design much further.

[Carl V]

As far as I know Madisound does not build the speaker after doing the software/crossover simulations.  The speaker will not be as good as one done by someone like Jim Salk or Selah Audio because they take the design much further.

Agree
+1
there are other DIY choices.
Or Semi -Custom designers.
Jed At Clearwave.

No disrespect to the people at Madisound.
But I'd consider some other avenues before making
your final choice....if ya arrive back at Madisound, fine.

[Carl V]

I spoke with the folks at Madisound, and I think this is the way to go.  I can get a Accuton mid or mid/bass driver for around $300-$400, they can design and build a crossover for me, which leaves me the choice between tweeters.  Don't want to pay $2k for a diamond tweeter.  Could go beryllium for around $400, or silk dome for around $200.  Want it to not stand out as very different from the diamond tweeter.  Any thoughts?

Thanks, Peter

You will need to listen & decide between Ribbon or Dome.
Then it comes down to Fabric Dome,Metal or ceramic.  Scan Speak
has always made high Quality & higher priced Domes. RAAL
make great Ribbons. There are two Ceramic Domes to consider.

Then your next choice is 2way or 3-way...which brings in the bass region.
with your L-R speakers I'd look to a Nice 3-way based on a 7' or 8" bass driver (2).
Again the designer I mentioned have already been down this path with great success.

Last but certainly not least the enclosure. You have options here.


Again good luck.

[Peter_S]

Thanks Carl.  I will not stop short at Madisound.  I appreciate the advice.

Regarding the design, this is just a center channel for HT, so it is not required to go below 80 hz.  I can accomplish this with just a single midrange (or bass-mid) and a single tweeter.  Madisound advises me that I don't need two mids to make this work, although people like the symmetrical look of a MTM. Also, when not needing to reach low frequencies, designing a good box should be more simple than other designs. I would have a local woodworker construct it based on my specification (i.e. the volume suggested by Madisound).

But yes, I'll check into the other resources for sure.  Thanks, Peter

[TF1216]

What is your budget and your willingness to make your own cabinet?

Does the finish of the center channel speaker need to match the other 2 speakers?

How big is your room and how much do you watch movies and prefer to have something that looks impressive?

TV or projector?

[Peter_S]

Oh, and for choosing tweeters, again I'm trying to get as close to the diamond tweeters for a reasonable cost as possible.

[Peter_S]

What is your budget and your willingness to make your own cabinet?

I'd like to keep the project at $1000 or less.  I will have a local woodworker make the cabinet (I'm assuming it's a fairly simple cabinet)

Does the finish of the center channel speaker need to match the other 2 speakers?

The speakers are maple, and I will use either a maple veneer or a maple plywood (one ply maple, the rest Baltic birch) with a thicker front baffle. I'm thinking non-parallel sides for one pair of opposing sides.

How big is your room and how much do you watch movies and prefer to have something that looks impressive?

The room is 13x18, with a sloping ceiling from 8-14 feet.  I don't need something super impressive looking.  I think that maple-veneered plywood in a simple box would be fine.

TV or projector?

Projector and screen.

[Peter_S]

This is an acoustics question, but it influences my final design because it determines where I place the center speaker.  So far, the options are: 1) on a cabinet about 2 feet behind the plane formed by the front L-R speakers, 2) on top of a subwoofer that I can place between the front L-R speakers (same plane).  This matters because if I place the center channel on the cabinet, it will lie flat (horizontal) whereas if it's on the sub, it will be designed vertically.  Any thoughts about having the center channel a couple feet behind the plane of the front L-R speakers?  Thanks.

[TF1216]

Thank you for answering all of the questions.

I am no guru about speaker design but I do believe you have 4 options.

    - single driver design
    - 2-way
    - mtm (horizontal)
    - wtmw (horizontal)

All of the above options are so let's start there. Now, you want the finish of the center channel to match your current speakers which leads me in the direction of DIY or finding a speaker design with different finishing options. With a $1,000 budget and the drivers you are considering I'm not certain you'll be able to obtain one of the horizontal designs listed above. If you go with the smaller options (single driver or 2-way) you may find something on Selah Audio's website. Some of the legacy designs may come in under $1k but I am not certain after the custom finish is added on.

My last note for you, and I apologize for sounding negative with this entire reply, is be wary of local cabinet/woodworkers. Most likely they are not familiar with speaker building and their final result can sometimes not be their best work. Unless they have built speakers, covered them with veneer, and worked with that particular wood, you could be in for a lot of headaches and more costs than you expected.

If I were you and had a bit more to spend I take my "must haves" then search for a solution. If one doesn't currently exist to replicate, I'd seek out a designer to build it for me. If I didn't have more to spend I'd either start with a center channel way under the budget to play with or find a design within the budget that would achieve the finish I was after.

There are a bunch of cabinet guys around including here on Audio Circle.  I'd look at them for help before finding someone local.

[FullRangeMan]

As far as I know Madisound does not build the speaker after doing the software/crossover simulations.  The speaker will not be as good as one done by someone like Jim Salk or Selah Audio because they take the design much further.

+1

[Carl V]

then consider a two way MT,
in a decent PE maple Box. Or Gloss black.
Consider a Scanpseak Be tweeter.
to go with that Accuton.
XO parts are up to  your discretion.

Selah or SALK or Clearwave can provide
you with a single speaker with those
parameters.  Rick at Selah can solve
all these concerns quickly & competently.

[Shakeydeal]

My thoughts are the same as the reply I gave on AA. Fine tune your speaker placement and system setup and you will have no need for a center channel for listening to music.

Shakey

[Letitroll98]

My thoughts are the same as the reply I gave on AA. Fine tune your speaker placement and system setup and you will have no need for a center channel for listening to music.

Shakey

+1. I was a little hesitant to give this advice as it's not what the op was asking for.  But now that the subject is breached, I've never had a need for a center channel and in this application especially, when you can't match the front speakers, I would at least try some of the popular placement options for HT phantom center channel.  Of course please feel free to reject this option if you're dead set on using a center channel speaker.