RAAL performance using newer icepower asx2 (w4s mmc amp)

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gregcss

I'm not trying to start a major debate between class d vs class a/b. I've read there is high frequency roll-off with older icepower modules and was curious to what extent this occurs with newer modules, particularly the asx2 in the w4s mmc amps. My concern is using such an amp with a speaker that has raal tweeters and missing out on all that the raal has to offer versus using class a/b. I don't really want an 80lb space heater and is why I'm looking at w4s.

Big Red Machine

Re: RAAL performance using newer icepower asx2 (w4s mmc amp)
« Reply #1 on: 3 Sep 2014, 01:38 pm »
At what frequency is this roll-off?

mca

Re: RAAL performance using newer icepower asx2 (w4s mmc amp)
« Reply #2 on: 3 Sep 2014, 01:43 pm »
High frequency

gregcss

Re: RAAL performance using newer icepower asx2 (w4s mmc amp)
« Reply #3 on: 3 Sep 2014, 01:47 pm »
At what frequency is this roll-off?

From the reviews I read specific frequencies were not provided, but it seems to be around the upper high frequency range.

ricardojoa

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Re: RAAL performance using newer icepower asx2 (w4s mmc amp)
« Reply #4 on: 3 Sep 2014, 01:49 pm »
I have read some class d amps rolls of at around 20khz. I have a nuforce class d STA100 and replaced it with a parasound hallo. I cantreally tell the difference, they both sounded good to me. The nuforce felt lilke a toy and was bit noisy. The parasound is more rebostly built and offer gain control, if your signals is noisy, that could be a plus.

I have raal equiped tweeter speakers and honestly could not tell the difference. Infact, i thought the nuforce sta100 fair pretty well.

barrows

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Re: RAAL performance using newer icepower asx2 (w4s mmc amp)
« Reply #5 on: 3 Sep 2014, 02:21 pm »
If you want to know the true frequency response of any of the ICEpower modules all you have to do is go to the ICEpower website and look at the graphs.  They have published the curves for all of their modules there.  Just google ICEpower and you will have all the anwers which you are looking for.

gregcss

Re: RAAL performance using newer icepower asx2 (w4s mmc amp)
« Reply #6 on: 3 Sep 2014, 02:36 pm »
If you want to know the true frequency response of any of the ICEpower modules all you have to do is go to the ICEpower website and look at the graphs.  They have published the curves for all of their modules there.  Just google ICEpower and you will have all the anwers which you are looking for.

Good point. The frequency response goes up to 20khz which is the same for the speaker. So there should not be any high frequency "missing" from the reproduced sound.

jtwrace

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Re: RAAL performance using newer icepower asx2 (w4s mmc amp)
« Reply #7 on: 3 Sep 2014, 02:37 pm »
Good point. The frequency response goes up to 20khz which is the same for the speaker. So there should not be any high frequency "missing" from the reproduced sound.
20khz doesn't mean anything anyway since you can hear that. 

RDavidson

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Re: RAAL performance using newer icepower asx2 (w4s mmc amp)
« Reply #8 on: 3 Sep 2014, 02:40 pm »
20khz doesn't mean anything anyway since you can hear that.

We can't hear it, but apparently we can "sense" it. This is somewhat similar to the way we can't hear really low bass, but we can sense / feel the pressure in the air.

Something to keep in mind too : How many recordings do you have that have sound information beyond 20khz?

R Swerdlow

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Re: RAAL performance using newer icepower asx2 (w4s mmc amp)
« Reply #9 on: 3 Sep 2014, 02:57 pm »
Something to keep in mind too : How many recordings do you have that have sound information beyond 20khz?

Probably few, if any, recordings have sound beyond 20 kHz.  CD's have a filter that blocks sound above 22 kHz, and vinyl records rely on the performance of the recording microphones, very few of which go that high.

Here is a relevant graph from this page http://www.icepower.bang-olufsen.com/en/solutions/theater/

I think frequency response is not a problem for these amps.

The upper 3 traces show frequency vs. response in dB, and the lower set of 3 shows frequency vs. phase in degrees.  Blue is 4 ohms, green is 8 ohms, and red is open load.

jonbee

Re: RAAL performance using newer icepower asx2 (w4s mmc amp)
« Reply #10 on: 3 Sep 2014, 03:46 pm »
I've used 4 Icepower amps (all from PS Audio), two of which were modded by Rick Cullen of W4S. I still use the modded C-100 integrated in my office and as a backup to my Hypex NCore NC-400 in my main system. I use RAAL tweeters in my office speakers, and have done so in the past in my main system too.
Before I got my N-Core, I was happy with a modded GCC-500, but in comparison to the N-Core the top end is somewhat soft and diffuse sounding, and a bit veiled overall. Not "bad" sounding, just different. I don't doubt that it measures flat, but top end events do not sound as clearly and sharply defined, which makes it sound like there is less top end energy. I suspect it is a psychoacoustic effect, not an actual rolloff. My modded C100 sounds much the same. The RAAL tweeter still sounds great with the ICE (better than most other tweeters, IMO), but as a high-rez device it will display changes and improvements in the signal chain very clearly.
Are the newer ICEPower modules better? I don't know. For the $, they still offer a lot of performance (very nice bass, clean, quiet and smooth), take little power, run cool, etc. Good Class AB amps can sound more lively, but not necessarily better. All amps will bring their own signature to the party, and comparable quality AB amps will cost more than the ICEPower amps in general. Odyssey makes great amps for the price, which I think are AB. They might be worth a look, but don't discount the W4S amps. They bring a lot of quality for the $.
You could ask W4S what they think of the sound of the newer modules, vs. the old.
Good luck.
« Last Edit: 3 Sep 2014, 05:45 pm by jonbee »

DS-21

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Re: RAAL performance using newer icepower asx2 (w4s mmc amp)
« Reply #11 on: 5 Sep 2014, 01:15 am »
I'm not trying to start a major debate between class d vs class a/b. I've read there is high frequency roll-off with older icepower modules and was curious to what extent this occurs with newer modules, particularly the asx2 in the w4s mmc amps. My concern is using such an amp with a speaker that has raal tweeters and missing out on all that the raal has to offer versus using class a/b. I don't really want an 80lb space heater and is why I'm looking at w4s.

As long as the amp module's input is buffered, you'll be fine.

Randy

Re: RAAL performance using newer icepower asx2 (w4s mmc amp)
« Reply #12 on: 5 Sep 2014, 01:28 am »
I'm not trying to start a major debate between class d vs class a/b. I've read there is high frequency roll-off with older icepower modules and was curious to what extent this occurs with newer modules, particularly the asx2 in the w4s mmc amps. My concern is using such an amp with a speaker that has raal tweeters and missing out on all that the raal has to offer versus using class a/b. I don't really want an 80lb space heater and is why I'm looking at w4s.

You need to check into the new Aluminati X2 amp. It uses a Pascal module. I have one. It's built like a tank and has great sonics. You can't go wrong.

gregcss

Re: RAAL performance using newer icepower asx2 (w4s mmc amp)
« Reply #13 on: 5 Sep 2014, 02:02 am »
You need to check into the new Aluminati X2 amp. It uses a Pascal module. I have one. It's built like a tank and has great sonics. You can't go wrong.

I was looking at them earlier today, however I am looking for 5 channels in a single box.