[mac]

Mac, with all due respect, I have seen your UCD creation, and it's looks leave something to be desired.  .

I would not expect someone like you to be impressed.    However, I invite you to post photos of your own work (or even the innards of your buddy's H2O amps).   I'm curious to see what an $800 transformer looks like.  

[ZooDog]

I think that looks pretty damn impressive for DIY.  I don't know the first thing about electronics but I find it hard to believe that any single component in any amp out there costs $800, including mega-buck jobs like Boulder and Halcro.

[muralman1]

OK, I apologize. I can't tell what it is made of. Folded sheet metal, right? Where did you source the materials? Again, the chassis material is a matter of preference. Look at the Rowland amps. I believe they are spending more on the chassis, than the guts.

Somebody like me???  

In the final analysis, it's all in the way the amp sounds, that counts.

If you can find a 1k toroid for less, I'd be interested. I'm sure Henry knows all about the ins and outs of transformers.

[Bob Wilcox]

Muralman1

I am very happy with my H20, and find Henry to be a stand-up guy. I'm sure Henry knows exactly what each part of his amps costs. If he chooses to share that information here, it would be more interesting and informative than your apparent estimates.

As far as spreading the good word about H20, perhaps less is/(would actually be) more...


Mac

Nice work!

Bob

[zybar]

Muralman1

I am very happy with my H20, and find Henry to be a stand-up guy. I'm sure Henry knows exactly what each part of his amps costs. If he chooses to share that information here, it would be more interesting and informative than your apparent estimates.

As far as spreading the good word about H20, perhaps less is/(would actually be) more...


Mac

Nice work!

Bob

Well said Bob.

He turns more people off to the H20 products than on...

Now we need to figure out how to get together soon.

George

[ted_b]

Muralman1

I am very happy with my H20, and find Henry to be a stand-up guy. I'm sure Henry knows exactly what each part of his amps costs. If he chooses to share that information here, it would be more interesting and informative than your apparent estimates.

As far as spreading the good word about H20, perhaps less is/(would actually be) more...


Mac

Nice work!

Bob

Well said Bob.

He turns more people off to the H20 products than on...

Now we need to figure out how to get together soon.

George

I'd LOVE to hear feedback from both you and Bob on the RM-40's mated with H2O's!!  
Cool.  

Ted

[muralman1]

Bob, I hear ya. I am a blabermouth. Think about this, though. There would not have been sale one without my efforts. No one would ever have heard of the H2O. I'm the one that torqued up the Old Lizzy.  There are others now, thank God, having discovered the wonders of the H2O, thank me, are writing their experiences. After the reviews, and Show, the company will be running on all cylinders, and you (thankfully) won't see me pushing from behind anymore, for fear of getting my arms ripped off.

Don't you all let my bombasting dissuade you. You have my apologies. The H2O must be heard to be believed.

[mac]

The H2O must be heard to be believed.

I still just want to get a look at that $800 transformer.  

[Bob Wilcox]

George

I am ready when you are.

Muralman1

Some constructive suggestions:

When tempted to compare the H20 to an amp you have not heard - Don't - you don't like it when others do.

When tempted to imply that Henry is the only designer that knows what he is doing -Don't - I am sure Henry does not feel this way.

When tempted to assert the superiority of Icepower against all competition, Don't - the audio forums have people who have forgotten more than you or I will ever know about this subject.

When tempted to climb out on a limb, Don't - people will chase you with a saw.  

You are probably more the father of H20 than Henry but - fathers are not supposed to bury their children ...

Bob

[muralman1]

Whoa Bob - Ouch, ouch, ouch, ouch, and ouch. Did I really deserve that?

1. What amp have I compared the H2O to that I haven't heard? What I am replying to here is the notion class D amps can't do it right. When I say owners of brands X,Y, and Z have switched to H2O, I leave any implication to be made by the reader.  

2. Imply only Henry knows? You are reading between the lines. I never have been so naive to do so. What I am saying is that untutored DIYers are not in the same league as someone with Henry's credentials. That doesn't mean all DIYers. Mac obviously knows what he is doing.  

3. I don't assert ICE is best. I try to drive in the point it isn't as bad as some DIYers say it is. I say it takes a darn good electronics engineer to make ICE into a stand out amp. I have never said the UCD module is inferior. You are right, I don't like it when people say the UCD is better, without ever hearing the H2O.

4. Walking out on a limb? Speaking of the transformer pricing, I suppose? I said it was the price of the only 1k toroid I found on a short search of the net.

5. Father of the H2O? Whatever that is suppose to imply, I don't know. In case you haven't noticed, Henry is not inclined to ever rise to his own defense.  My main fault is to let my dander up when someone, never having heard Henry's H2O, spews out misinformation about "ICE amps." the Apogee site has been rife with such malice.

I just wrote a letter to yet another inquiring potential H2O buyer. I do that just about every day. I might be over the top in my language, but people are obviously cutting through my bull you are sensitive to, hearing the root of my message, "I love my H2O." They are asking me why?

How do you think anyone has ever heard of the H2O? No matter, soon, reviews will be out. A lot of interest will be generated by the HE show in New York. I am jazzed about that show. I've got my plane tickets.

[Bob Wilcox]

Vince

By father of the H20, I mean that it might  not exist if you had not introduced Henry to the technology.

If I was overly sensitive to the bull, I would have let you know much sooner. My suggestions were drawn from several threads and are not limited to this one - an acretion of bull, perhaps. I will refrain from a blow by blow commentary on your numerous posts here, at Audio Asylum and at the Apogee site. Anyone interested can find them easily and draw their own conclusions. Life is too short and I don't tend to post an awful lot.

I will comment on a post in this thread. You referred to a turf war at the Apogee site. I don't see the turf angle. What I see is people being rubbed the wrong way to varying degrees. Some claim a decrease in overall member participation at the site due to the atmosphere. Would hate to see that happen here.  I suppose the facts are arguable but factual correctness and how you come across can be at odds. Perhaps Henry does not feel that he or his products or underlying technology require defending. Henry does not seem to be rubbing people the wrong way.

To do my part to maintain a decent S/N ratio at the Audio Circle, I will try to move on from this topic. I still believe that you can be supportive of the company, designer and products in a more subdued manner and become a more effective advocate in the process.

Bob

[muralman1]

Bob, I' sorry you are moving on. I hate leaving untidied rooms behind.

I've been around the bases lots of times. I have heard scads of gear.

My comment about the life cycle of the Cowbird is appropriate enough. Some at the Apogee site feel there is only room for one commercial entity. The food slinging started with the mention of Apogee riibbons, and at the inception of the H2O. The people I know that no longer contribute to the Apogee forum are the people who suffered false accusations, like I had.

[lonewolfny42]

Bob, I hear ya. I am a blabermouth. Think about this, though. There would not have been sale one without my efforts. No one would ever have heard of the H2O. I'm the one that torqued up the Old Lizzy. There are others now, thank God, having discovered the wonders of the H2O, thank me, are writing their experiences. After the reviews, and Show, the company will be running on all cylinders, and you (thankfully) won't see me pushing from behind anymore, for fear of getting my arms ripped off.

Don't you all let my bombasting dissuade you. You have my apologies. The H2O must be heard to be believed.  

muralman1, As the cheerleader for the H2O amp, why not put together a listening session for AC members that may live by you ? I don't know where you live, but AC has members all over the world. Sure some would like a listen and would give their comments on what they heard. Just an idea...why not try it... [/list:u]

[muralman1]

Hey lonewolf, Great suggestion! Every audiophile I can collar gets dragged in here for a listen. I'm cooking for an all comers CDP shoot off in the near future. I live in the Capitol of California.

[denverdoc]

I doubt I live nearby but in philosophy wholeheartedly agree--we the jaded audio lunatics lwho have bought into various over the top promises, love the opportunty to listen first hand, no hype, no BS just our ears, esp when contemplating dropping 2500 bucks on 500 of parts when there is essentially little or no R&D or warranty/service dept to trust.
John

[lonewolfny42]

Hey lonewolf, Great suggestion! Every audiophile I can collar gets dragged in here for a listen. I'm cooking for an all comers CDP shoot off in the near future. I live in the Capitol of California.

Good...CA has plenty of AC members...and a regional circle. I'm sure if you post when ready....some will show up.

[Bob Wilcox]

FWIW, the cowbird does not build its own nest but instead steals the nest of other species and is described as a parasite. I don't understand how this relates to the Apogee site.

Bob

[Baranyi]

I have two of the Signature Stereo 250's for sale if anyone is interested. Bob