[megabigeye]

Look at the Musical Paradise MP 301-MK3.  It's under $400.00


http://www.musicalparadise.ca/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=54

I wouldn't hesitate to get a Virtue amp if it suits your requirements. Seth, Jason T, and crew are amazing people who truly care that you are happy with your purchase. Service after the sale is through the roof excellent.

But, given your speakers, I'd be inclined to give one of these a try via Amazon also. This amp has rceived pretty much universal praise, if you don't need a lot of power (and don't need a bunch of inputs/outputs)......and even then, apparently this little amp has more guts than the specs indicate. We all know Amazon has a liberal return policy, which is nice too.
http://www.amazon.com/APPJ-PA0901A-6P14-Amplifier-Silver/dp/B00APC0VXY

I'd like to try tubes some time, but I think I'm going to stick with solid state for now.  Maybe some day when I have more money for a second system.  I love the colors of the APPJ amp, though.

And just to muddy the waters with another suggestion, you might want to look at Clones Audio...they make a power amp version of their highly regarded 25i integrated. Both try to replicate the original 47Labs Gaincard as closely as possible, hence the company name. Been getting great press...

http://www.clonesaudio.com/#!amp/clj5

I've also been intrigued by GainClones in the past, but those are a bit out of my price range with the current exchange rate.

[JLM]

Be careful of DIY chip amps (Gainclones).  I owned a very nice pair of 40 watt mono blocks, but home evaluated one that had horrible 60 Hz hum (even with power supply in a separate cabinet) and it picked up a local FM radio station as a constant background.

That MP 301 looks interesting but is only 5 wpc (a flea amp).  The APPJ PA0901A is cute but has even lower output.  You'd want very high efficiency (98 dB/w/m or higher) speakers to mate with either of these amps (which can be very dynamic but will reveal all your system weaknesses).

[megabigeye]

Part of the reason I don't want DIY at the moment (other than not having much DIY skill, of course) is that I want something that I can set up and have running, not something that I have to fiddle with and figure out before it's just right.
Same goes for tubes.  And, yeah, I realize those tube amps are low power.  I figure if I ever want to try tubes I'll probably go with a headphone amp or pre, maybe something like a BottleHead Quickie or Crack.

Anyway.

I think I've narrowed down my choices to two: The NAD or the Virtue.  I think I'm leaning a bit toward the Virtue, but then I start thinking...  And that's never a good idea.

Virtue One.3

Pros:

• A sound I'm 99.9% certain I'll love
• $100 less than NAD
• I get to keep using my HDP, which I like a lot (which I've now set up with my KingRex PSU...  Maybe there's a slightly noticeable difference?)
• More power means I'd have more options if I ever want to upgrade my speakers
Cons:

• No remote
• It'll be a little more fiddly to set up and use.
• That damned bright blue LED!
Questions/uncertainties:

• Is using an integrated with an external preamp suboptimal?  Reading between the lines on this thread, I'll guess that it doesn't really matter so much, but I'd like to know for certain.  I also read that you shouldn't leave the volume turned up when turning the amp on and off, but this is something I'd likely want to do.  Is this a real risk?
• It has an 80Hz high pass filter...  I'm assuming that means that only frequencies above 80Hz go to the main speakers and that full spectrum goes to the sub, not just below 80Hz?  Meaning that I use my sub's crossover?  Also, is the high pass filter only activated when a sub is connected?
• Is it going to be too much power?  I'd plan on keeping the One.3's volume set at 2/3 or less and just using the HDP's volume control.  Alternately, NuForce's recommendation is that I leave the HDP's volume pot at 2 o'clock or lower and use the Virtue's pot instead.
• Is $400 too much for a little amp with so few features?  Does it cost so much simply because it's a smaller company with smaller production runs?  The NAD is only a hundred bucks more but packs in a ton more features and allegedly has great sound.
• Somewhat uncertain about the reliability of Virtue.  It's relatively new and definitely a boutique company.

NAD D 3020:
Pros:

• More features!  I'd be able to eliminate a component from the signal path and it'd be less fiddly.
• Remote
• Sweet spot for power for current setup.
• NAD is a company with a history, and one of reliability and quality, at that.
Cons:

• $100 more than Virtue
• No use or place for my HDP.  Why would I want to replace something that I know I like?
• Maybe it's just the pictures, but I'm honestly not a fan of the way it looks.
• I'm also not a fan of touch sensitive "buttons."  I much prefer mechanical.
Questions/uncertainties:

• Is $500 too little for something with so many features?  I'm a little bit afraid that the reason it costs so little is because they're cutting corners and skimping.  It costs only $50 more than my HDP and has all the same features (minus preamp out), plus a remote, Bluetooth, and speaker outputs.  Seems like an obvious choice, but is it really as nice?
• Same question as Virtue about sub output.

Asides:

• BULLET POINTS!!

[Quiet Earth]

I would get the NAD 316BEE http://nadelectronics.com/products/hifi-amplifiers/C-316BEE-Stereo-Integrated-Amplifier

I bought the older version, the 315BEE for my Mom a few years ago and she loves it. I had it over here for a week or so before I delivered it to her house. I thought it was a very good sounding amp for the money, and it was hardly embarrassed to be in my set up which is way overpriced for the little NAD. It is a great value for the price.

It has plenty of power (and not too much) for your speakers, plus a tape out, plus a cheap but effective remote control if you need remote. It will probably outlast all of your other choices too. Check it out.

[JLM]

Both good choices...

Virtue: One pro is you'd be supporting an Audio Circle (and domestic) vendor.  Don't worry about the volume controls just set the two volumes at whatever works best for you. Don't worry about which has more power (remember that the difference between 30 and 50 watts is only 3 dB - half again as loud).  Boutique companies have their charms, but hard for them to keep up with fast moving technology (for example, except for Empirical all the cottage industry DACs are gone and Empirical is high end stuff and yet doesn't offer DSD).

NAD features "soft clipping" to provide some protection from over driving the amp, the extra money could easily be saved from sale of the HDP and not having to buy a pair of interconnects.  The 80 Hz sub crossover probably sends below 80 Hz to the sub and above to the mains, so you wouldn't use the sub crossover, but try to check that out to be sure (if they really matters to you).  Yes NAD has been around for decades, so parts should be around for a relatively long time.  And you'd be saving two cabinets.  The build quality of the NAD receiver I had in the 90's was fine (not like some expensive gear that is probably designed to survive being thrown out the 2nd floor window).  The technical bits of the D3020 is largely a result of trickle down from their high end stuff that adds lots of value if you can live with yesterday's technology.

[JohnR]

Is using an integrated with an external preamp suboptimal?  Reading between the lines on this thread, I'll guess that it doesn't really matter so much, but I'd like to know for certain.  I also read that you shouldn't leave the volume turned up when turning the amp on and off, but this is something I'd likely want to do.  Is this a real risk?

Don't know about the one.3 but I'm fairly sure the one.2 has a jumper so you can bypass the volume pot. Never heard about or noticed the volume on power up/down issue.

It has an 80Hz high pass filter...  I'm assuming that means that only frequencies above 80Hz go to the main speakers and that full spectrum goes to the sub, not just below 80Hz?  Meaning that I use my sub's crossover?  Also, is the high pass filter only activated when a sub is connected?

This is done with a jumper. It makes the signal to the internal amp high passed. The sub output (in the one.2 don't know about the one.3) has no low pass filter, you use the filter in your sub.

Somewhat uncertain about the reliability of Virtue.  It's relatively new and definitely a boutique company.

Virtue has been around for a few years now... (one.3 is the third generation of the amp). There are plenty of units around and you don't hear about issues much.

If it's of interest I have a one.2 that I don't use much and can sell.

EDIT. here the one.2 manual, page 10 shows the jumpers: http://www.wihifi.com/virtuemanual/Virtue%20ONE.2%20TWO.2%20User%20Manual.pdf

[megabigeye]

I'm about this close [holds up fingers an inch apart] to splurging on the One.3, but I have one last (for now) simple (potentially stupid) question:

So, if the One.3 has a high pass filter set at 80Hz and I keep my sub set at 110Hz, is that going to make a noticeable problem?  I mean, I know that having too high a frequency from your sub can affect sound stage/localization, but does having too low a frequency coming from your speakers have a negative impact?

Thanks!

[megabigeye]

In case anybody is wondering, I ended up getting the One.3 last night.  I think I'll be glad I did, I'm enjoying the experience already: Seth personally called me minutes (Literally!  Minutes!) after I confirmed my order to make sure I actually wanted the red and I decided on the white instead.  I worry a little bit about such a small company being able to handle support when the going gets rough, but with outgoing service like that my worries are somewhat allayed.  That's the kind of experience I really like.

Anyway, what I really want to say is THANK YOU to everybody for all the input and advice!!  And especially VERY DEEPEST THANKS TO JLM, your patience, answers to my questions, and your input were invaluable.  Again, many, many thanks!!

[roymail]

I think that is a wise choice for you.  Hope you enjoy it!

[megabigeye]

Thanks!  I already am!

[RDavidson]

That's awesome. Seth and team Virtue are second to none. Glad you've already experienced this for yourself.