New HT reference speaker now available from BESL

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PEB

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    • http://www.BambergAudio.com
New HT reference speaker now available from BESL
« on: 16 Aug 2004, 05:43 pm »
Our latest product, the BESL Series 2.5 LCR, is finally complete and already shipping.

My design goal was to strike a balance between the superior dynamics of an MTM monitor and the spacious imaging of an MT monitor.  The 2.5-way crossover allows an identical speaker to be used at left-center-right positions, but with uniform imaging even when the center speaker is placed on its side.

Most of all, we are especially pleased with how this new speaker sounds.

Have a look at what’s so special about it at the BESL web site.  Now you can have your cake and eat it, too!   :wink:

Phil Bamberg
BESL
www.BambergLab.com

Rick Craig

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Re: New HT reference speaker now available from BESL
« Reply #1 on: 16 Aug 2004, 06:34 pm »
Quote from: PEB
Our latest product, the BESL Series 2.5 LCR, is finally complete and already shipping.

My design goal was to strike a balance between the superior dynamics of an MTM monitor and the spacious imaging of an MT monitor.  The 2.5-way crossover allows an identical speaker to be used at left-center-right positions, but with uniform imaging even when the center speaker is placed on its side.

Most of all, we are especially pleased with how this new speaker sounds.

Have a look at what’s so special about it ...


How's it going Phil? You should ask about setting up a circle here.

Rick

jackman

New HT reference speaker now available from BESL
« Reply #2 on: 16 Aug 2004, 07:21 pm »
I would totally vote for a circle for Phil.  I had a chance to listen to his large reference system and spend some time with Phil talking about speaker design, audio and music.  A couple observations:

1.  Phil is a great guy who KNOWS how to design amazing speakers.  His Reference 5's were probably the best sounding speakers I have ever heard.  Nothing in particular stood out (in a good way).  They were just extremely balanced from top to bottom and sounded like "music".  

2.  Phil is patient!  He took a lot of time to explain his approach to loudspeaker design and he answered all of my questions thoroughly.  He also NEVER tried to "sell" me anything.  His approach is very low pressure, which I really liked.  

3.  Phil/BESL is a class act who is not about hype or "salesmanship"/marketing.  He's an engineer who backs up every claim with hard science.  I say "hard" science because my first two years of engeneering school were "hard", so I switched to business!  Anyway, if you want to learn a bit (or a lot) about loudspeaker design and terminology, go to the BESL site.  Phil makes no claims that can't be measured or proven with "real" science...not the snake oil that is all too common in this business.  Check out the measurements on all of his designs (on the site).  

4.  Phil offers excellent value.  BESL speakers are extremely well designed, and their performance/dollar ratio is as good as I have seen.   The workmanship on his crossovers was the absolute best I have seen.  

5.  Phil/BESL would make an excellent contribution to this site.  I don't know many people who wouldn't be a whole lot smarter about loudspeakers after a couple hours with Phil Bamburg.  

I would ask anyone who hasn't had the pleasure of spending time with Phil or BESL speakers NOT to believe me on any of the above points.  Set up an appointment and make a drive to Indianapolis to see (or hear!) for yourself or sign up for a 30 day trial.   Phil's home system consists of his Reference 5 speakers in an active setup with room correction.  Although he has very little in the way of room treatments, his system sounded flawless.  It was definitely worth the drive!

Cheers!

Jack

sica

Questions for Phil : )
« Reply #3 on: 17 Aug 2004, 01:05 am »
This is a quote from the Besl website about the Series 2.5 LCR:
"2.5-way crossover fades out the lower woofer, while the upper woofer and tweeter behave as a typical MT speaker in the upper ranges. You get the higher output of an MTM design with the uniform dispersion pattern of an MT design. "
Hi Phil, how does the Series 2.5 LCR sound compare to the Series 5 which is MTM? :D

PEB

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New HT reference speaker now available from BESL
« Reply #4 on: 17 Aug 2004, 05:02 pm »
Sica, thanks for your question.  Please forgive my long answer here, because it belies an even more important  issue under the surface.

First off, I prefer to let my customers describe the sound in the review section for each product.    :D

Each BESL model is developed by computer methods of course, but then each goes through a comprehensive subjective voicing process to discover the nuances necessary to make sure it sounds its best.  But from a bigger picture point of view, I can also assure you that all BESL models are developed (and later confirmed) to “sound the same”.  By this I mean I make sure to voice them equivalently, and then to prove the voicing with pink noise comparison.  Pink noise easily demonstrates differences in output at various frequency bands.  (You can open the SPL graphs for BESL monitors in separate windows and check this for yourself.)

This is all amplitude information, of course.  Subjectively, the speakers sound a little different from each other.  But I think of it more as each having different strengths.

For example, many audiophiles have noticed that MTM’s excel in dynamic punch, and with lower distortion at elevated playback levels.  By contrast, MT designs exhibit more spacious imaging, but have 6dB lower maximum SPL capability.  Yet both designs can exhibit superb low-level resolution and retrieval of detail.  IOW, one can be drawn into the performance with either type.

Next, it is my experience that the greatest image depth is achieved only when no large object is between and behind the L/R speakers.  This works fine for two-channel. But with the exception of LCD and front-projection video, theater systems can suffer from flat image depth.  (This becomes apparent when you find yourself enjoying the spacious sound from the simple system in your small office more than flat sound stage from your big rig in the theater room.  :o ) Even then, you can’t treat the front wall acoustically, unless you have the screen roll out from above.

Having said all that, it’s back to your question.  There were three primary goals for the new S2.5 LCR speaker:
1)   Achieve the same max SPL of the Series 5 MTM (or S2-mtm, another dual 7” monitor).
2)   Keep the same low-level resolution as the MT and MTM Series 5 monitors (by way of the SEAS excel woofers and Millennium tweeter), but show greater depth of image than the MTM model.
3)   (Most important): Exhibit uniform imaging from identical speakers used at left-center-right locations, in spite of the center speaker laying on its side.

To be clear, the S2.5 LCR is targeted primarily to those wanting a reference grade front channel theater monitor.  Yet it can also appeal to two-channel audiophiles needing the higher output from dual-woofers, but who are also trying to strike a balance between the dynamics/image-space issue. Realize also that it is not prudent to bi-wire (or tri-wire) the passive crossover inside the LCR speaker.  It is much more practical to keep it passive, and single-wire it.  HT systems have enough cable already.  On the other hand, the S5 MTM benefits slightly from bi-wiring, and benefits greatly with a fully active DSP tri-amp configuration.

See how carefully I am side-stepping the issue?  Do you want me to unequivocally say which sounds better?  Surely you anticipate my answer will be “It depends”.  What seemed like a comparison between “green apples and red apples” at first is really more of an apples-to-oranges comparison after all.

For an example, if you need superb two-channel performance combined with video, then you might employ S5 MTM at L/R, with the 2.5 LCR in the center.  Use a front projection screen for video.  Acoustically treat first reflection spots.  And so forth.

In the near future, I plan to expound more on planning a speaker purchase around pertinent issues such as max SPL, room size, 2.1 vs. HT, dynamics vs. imaging, budget, etc., etc.  I think the issue of choosing the right size speaker for the specific application is often overlooked and oversimplified. To that end, you will see BESL product families and family members (just as you do with the big companies) that are designed to mix and match (if needed) in a theater setting or combined audio/theater system.

But my first problem is not
“Who has heard BESL speakers?”, but
“Who has heard OF BESL speakers?”  !!  

This is why I appreciate Market Square at Audio Circle.  It’s a flame-free zone, right?  :wink:

sica

thanks
« Reply #5 on: 17 Aug 2004, 06:29 pm »
Thanks Phil, I love long answers :D