[BeeBop]

Beethoven: 9 Symphonies; David Zinman & Tonhalle Orchestra Zurich; Arte Nove

I put up a couple of postings on the various fora asking for recommendations for a Beethoven Symphony Cycle. I got a lot of responses asking why I wanted them all by the same orchestra and some who recommended various cycles. Like many people, I have the Karajan/Berlin Philharmonic million man violin version, but I hoped that I could find something more interesting.

Nobody recommended the Zinman/Tonhalle version but I heard a movement from the 6th on Jurgen Gothe's CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation - www.cbc.ca) program "Disc Drive" and I knew that this was what I was looking for...

I read a comment somewhere (and I do apologize for not remembering the author) that the Zinman/Tonhalle version shows an orchestra where "every performer is a soloist but none is a star" and that certainly describes very well this recording. In places where von Karajan will have a bank of violinists, Zinman will have one. Horns, cellos, oboes - it all stands out. I would love to have a system with outstanding soundstage, but my first priority is detail and these recordings (box set - 5 CDs) give me that in spades.

These are terrific recordings. I get some congestion and glare when all of the violins start to saw off the high notes at once but whether this is the recording, or my (admittedly 2nd tier) system I cannot say; some day I mean to find out (any comments are welcome).

I recommend these recordings highly. According to the liner notes, they are true to the original performances. Let's face it, the average patron of the arts at the turn of the 18th century could never have afforded an orchestra the size of Karajan's Berlin Philharmonic (not that there's anything wring with that!), what with the cost of maintaining an army, a castle, the wife's flotilla of handmaidens and bribes to the church....

The great thing about these recordings is that just as you are about to drift off into reverie, something interesting happens and you are pulled back in the music.

Beebop

[jeffreybehr]

Interesting...

I've been an active classical-music lover (and unabashed Romantic) for about 45 years now, and I've never been fascinated with anything of HVKs'*.  

I've just started buying multichannel orchestral recordings and read in 'The Absolute Sound' that Abbado's Beethoven cycle is quite good.  I just ordered some of it on DVD-A; we'll see.  

I'm more interested in natural-sounding recordings (whatever they are!) and am not after the details**.  I love to sit with my eyes closed and let the orchestra's sound--and there's a LOT of it in multichannel recordings--wash over me.  My faves so far are Maurice Abravanel's with the Utah, which were recorded by Mark Aubort and Joanna Nikrenz (sp?) of Elite Recordings.  The Mormon Tabernacle where they recorded is a HUGE-souding place without an apparent back wall to the orchestral stage, but just wait until until you hear the last movement of the Sibelius 2nd Symphony--WOW!!!!!!!!  Abavanel isn't quite heart-on-sleeve enough for me sometimes, but overall his stuff is highly enjoyable.  I have several Naxos DVD-As recorded in Russia that sound VERY good.


*Oops...just remembered an early-stereo EMI Pines of Rome recording with a gloriously slow final march (Pines of The Appian way) that is still my favorite--too bad I can't find it.

** Perhaps you appreciate the old 3-microphone Mercury Living Presence recordings that Harry Pearson loves so much.  They're too close and harsh for me--way too much 'Presence'.

[BeeBop]

Well to each his own I suppose. Mercury Living Presence recordings do get a lot of praise. In any case, the Tonhalle recordings are unique because of their orchestration rather than the recording and pressing techniques.

Also, for future reference, the plural of HVK would be HVK's. Putting the apostrophe after the S is reserved for words which already end in S.

[Tyson]

The Zinman cycle is OK, but IMO the Abbado is better and is in the same style.  The Zinman is nice because he has amazing orchestral precision, but is simply too fast and underplays way too much of the drama, IMO.  Abbado is better at getting some of the drama at a similar fast speed (not quite as fast though), but his orchestra isn't as precise and "together" as Zinman.  For a set that combines the best qualities of both cycles, and then some, the Gardiner set cannot be beat.  And Gardiner has the best recording quality too.  I like the 1963 set of Karajan, the latest remastering cleans it up nicely, and he's a lot better than in later cycles, but he's still at a lower level than my top 3 of Gardiner, Szell, and Wand.

[jeffreybehr]

Also, for future reference, the plural of HVK would be HVK's. Putting the apostrophe after the S is reserved for words which already end in S.

Well, actually, the plural of HVK is HVKs.  The singular possessive form is HVK's, which is what I intended, but didn't, do.

I like my romantic-period music, which for me includes Beethoven beginning with the 3rd symphony and the 4th piano concerto, played strongly and, generally, slowly.  For instance, I do not much like Toscanin's Beethoven.

[Tyson]

Interesting, if you like Beethoven slow and empatic, then ignore my rec's entirely, cause I like it fast and intense  For the same reason I recommend you avoid the Emersons doing the String Quartets, Kempff or Fleisher doing the piano concertos, and Goode doing the Piano Sonata's.

You might like the newest Barenboim Beethoven Cycle on Teldec, really great recording quality and strong, majestic performances in the Furtwangler mode.  Actually quite good, if you like that style

You would also probably like the Quartetto Italiano's traversal of the String Quartets, Claudio Arrau or Brendel in the piano Sonatas, and Perahia in the Piano Concerto's.

Or, maybe you already have these sets, if so I'd love to hear your thoughts on them.

[Anton]

I have both cycles, Zinman and Abbado (besides many others in CD and LP), and both are quite different approaches to Del Mar's critical version. Zinman's Zurich Tonhalle may be considered a little rough as compared with the Berliners and some have stated that Zinman interpretation is not very inspired. The same has been said about Abbado's interpretations. I do like both although I am not extremely excited by them. In addition, on some of the symphonies DGG has varied the recording hall and the technique: some sounding quite near and some quite far.

You might consider Günter Wand's rendition on BMG which uses the critical edition as well.

In addition there is the Thomas Dausgaard's interpretation with the Swedish Chamber Orchestra on Simax, which uses the same edition, although this cycle is not finished yet.

Lastly, as time goes by you might consider adding individual recordings of Beethoven's symphonies which may give you a "best" interpretation of ecah one of them.

Happy listening!

[BeeBop]

Well, actually, the plural of HVK is HVKs.  The singular possessive form is HVK's, which is what I intended, but didn't, do.

Yes you are right. I meant to say the possessive of HVK. I stand corrected. Serves me right for being uppity I suppose.

[jeffreybehr]

Well, actually, the plural of HVK is HVKs.  The singular possessive form is HVK's, which is what I intended, but didn't, do.

Yes you are right. I meant to say the possessive of HVK. I stand corrected. Serves me right for being uppity I suppose.

Doesn't matter...I STILL LOVE your avatar....REALLY REALLY cute.

[jeffreybehr]

Anton, I'm a Mahler freak but don't remember much about Tennstead's 5th.  The 5th's adagietto is its most-important movement for me; if it's done strongly, especially the down-going strings at the end, it all seems to work.  I LOVED Bernstein's old Columbia for that.  

Currently I own only Berstein's later one on DG and Inoue's* on RPO.


* How does one pronounce that?

[WilliamL]

* How does one pronounce that?

ee-nooo-ay

BTW, I like the Harnoncourt cycle on Teldec...