Glue for Speaker Boxes

Mark_Walsh · « **on:** 26 Apr 2004, 03:42 am »

Hello All,

Just a quickie here:

What glue do you recommend for assembly of a subwoofer cabinet.

I was going to use Araldite (the slow drying stuff) - an epoxy two part glue, but then it has been suggested that I should use:

a.) Weldbond ... a sort of souped up PVA glue
b.) Common old Aquadhere - a garden variety PVA glue.
c.) Liquid Nails (water or solvent based)

These are the main options I know of here in Australia.

Any suggestions please.

Regards,
MW

Christof · « **Reply #1 on:** 26 Apr 2004, 05:11 am »

MW,

PVA works great on MDF. I see no reason to use waterproof (type II)PVA glue. If your cabinets see water than you have a bigger problem than glue joint failure. You may also give the 2-part epoxy a try. Here in the states I have access to a wonderful product called West System Epoxy and use it as my primary adhesive. Hands down it is by far the most superior adhesive I've ever used. It is important to keep in mind how different adhesives are intended to be used. If you use them properly than they will all work fine. MDF is a very thirsty material, you will most often experience a "dry joint" failure with it. Epoxy needs a "fat" glue line, meaning minimal clamping pressure. If you clamp too tight and force the epoxy out of the joint it will dry fail. One trick with MDF is to wet-out the material before applying the final adhesive. With PVA, just apply a layer and let it soak in then apply another layer and clamp..better to use too much. With epoxy apply an unthickened layer and let it soak in, than use a thickened layer and clamp (lightly).

I would steer away from Liquid Nails

You can find West System at:

In Australia and the Far East contact: ATL Composites, P.O. Box 2349/Southport 4215, Queensland, Australia, Phone 61-755-377-636, Fax 61-755-378-659, e-mail: info@atlcomposites.com

www.westsystem.com (tons of great info at their website)

Mark_Walsh · « **Reply #2 on:** 26 Apr 2004, 06:16 am »

Thanks Christoff,

I think that since I have some Weldbond (which is said to be a superstrong PVA) I will give it a go in light of your suggestions.

I have some Wests epoxy adhesive, but have been afraid to use it because a good and knowledgeable friend (an Intensive Care Physician) know several hobbiest and tradesman windsurfer shapers who are now allergic to just about everything and are respiratory cripples who exposed themselves to the sorts of epoxies in the Wests stuff. He is not even sure that simple fume masks protect the user, but rather one needs super-ventilation space suits.

What is "yellow wood glue" which has been suggested by some of your compatriots? Sounds like Liquid Nails to me.

Regards and thanks,
Mark Walsh.

azryan · « **Reply #3 on:** 11 May 2004, 10:49 pm »

Liquid Nails is rubbery which is not cool for cabinets. It's great for making sure you've got no air gaps in seams.

Also so thick and gummy that it's super hard to bond two pieces of MDF together without getting some air spaces.

TitebondII in places like Home Depot or Lowes seems to be the 'yellow wood glue' of choice.
Cheap and easy to use and water based clean up -unlike Liquid Nails.

Makes a pressure and chemical bond with the MDF when you clamp bits together.

This bond is stronger than the MDF itself so no need to use anything extra stong like epoxy -which I think makes fumes? And I'd think has to be much costlier.

An extreme example of this would be like attaching cardboard bits with steel brackets.
The steel is overkill 'cuz you only need brackets as strong as the cardboard itself.

Not sure if TitebondII is 'PVA'? Should just be pro grade yellow 'wood glue'.

I had a scrap bit maybe about 8" x 10" of two 3/4" MDF pieces that only had a tiny bit of glue between the very edge and couldn't pry them apart with my hands.
I finally took a claw hammer and bashed 'em apart to see what would happen.

The MDF of one piece tore apart with the top layer stucking to the glue which stayed totally stuck and undamaged to the other piece.

Like pulling at a wishbone. The center (the glue) never breaks.

rosconey · « **Reply #4 on:** 11 May 2004, 11:26 pm »

if you want to do it right use elmers wood glue and prep the glued areas by dampening with a wet spong.when done this way its is so hard that the mdf will break before the joint.

azryan · « **Reply #5 on:** 12 May 2004, 06:19 pm »

The glue is stronger than the MDF in the first place.

I don't see why you'd want to 'wet' MDF when you don't need to. You just risk it getting too wet and deforming.

'Dry' the pressure and more-so the chemical bond is more than strong enough.

gonefishin · « **Reply #6 on:** 12 May 2004, 06:37 pm »

Just something to keep in mind when gluing veneered mdf.

If you plan on staining the cabinet...You want to be careful not to "squeeze" out glue onto your veneer. If you do, you can circle it with a pencil (so you don't forget where it is) and sand it off before you stain.

When you sand, be careful not to "burn" thru the veneer. If your sanding by hand...you'll want to use a sanding block. If your using a palm, orbital or (you better be real careful) belt sander...just be careful not to take off too much and not to work too long in one small area. You don't want any burns thru the veneer...but you don't want dips either.

have fun! (love to see some pictures of the finished product!

)

rosconey · « **Reply #7 on:** 12 May 2004, 11:34 pm »

I don't see why you'd want to 'wet' MDF when you don't need to. You just risk it getting too wet and deforming.

i was told this by 2 different cabinet makers over the years.
when i tile a block wall and use thinset instead of mastic (glue) i soak the tile and wet the wall(not soaking just damp), this causes the thinset to be drawn into the tile and block as the water dries makes a solid wall, if i just spread thinset and pushed tile on the bond isnt as good . i figure its the same with mdf and the guys who told me build high quality stuff and i respect what they say in such matters.

with any luck a pro from one of the forums will share some secrets-

Christof · « **Reply #8 on:** 13 May 2004, 12:37 am »

I agree with Rosconey on the MDF wet-out. MDF is a very porous substrate and will often suck a joint dry of glue if you apply too much clamping pressure. I would caution against using straight water as it would be easy to go overboard and ruin the MDF. Instead of water I would thin PVA glue down 50% and wet the joint, wait a while and then apply unthinned glue. This is a common practice with many adhesives.

azryan · « **Reply #9 on:** 13 May 2004, 05:43 pm »

tiling a block wall is a matter of totally diff. materials.

If you watered down the glue a bit like Christof said I wouldn't argue with that method.

I know I didn't need to though and built cabinets outside in AZ. Few places as hot/dry.

Andrikos · « **Reply #10 on:** 13 May 2004, 06:55 pm »

I second the Titebond premium glue recommendation.
Cheap (bought a gallon of it for $15), easy to apply, easy to clean and makes a super-strong bond on baltic birch, MDF and even dynamat.
Far superior to the p.i.t.a "gorilla glue" poly-urethane crap that I also used.
IMO no need to buy anything more "sophisticated" or "Stronger".
As AZRyan already mentioned, the bond itself is stronger than the material.

rosconey · « **Reply #11 on:** 13 May 2004, 09:24 pm »

tiling a block wall is a matter of totally diff. materials.

If you watered down the glue a bit like Christof said I wouldn't argue with that method.

why argue with my method any way-just because your ignorant to the method

is it me or do you come across as a prick know it all -all the time-
ive kept my opinion about you too my self till now, but after reading other posts you have graced, you always come across as a know it all- you always look for a argument-seen it with speaker builders and other members when you get in a forum-
sorry if this is off tangent but i had to say it -btw i wont be responding to anything from him again-the matter is dead-

im here to learn and discuss -because i dont know it all.

armstrg3 · « **Reply #12 on:** 13 May 2004, 09:54 pm »

I would strongly recommend using "DAP Weldwood" Plastic Resin Glue for MDF. It is without doubt the best for MDF application.

WireNut · « **Reply #13 on:** 29 Aug 2013, 02:14 am »

I have to share.
This spring is bonded to a 3/8 thick piece of steel using only West System epoxy with the 406 Colloidal Silica filler. The epoxy isn't even straining but my fingers are. This stuff is so strong and has such good gap filling properties it will help you build the best cabinet possible. But it ain't cheap.

jules · « **Reply #14 on:** 29 Aug 2013, 02:57 am »

One vote for PVA here ... it's east to use, easy to clean up and given the surface area you'll be gluing in a sub cabinet [especially if there's bracing] it's more than strong enough for anything up to dropping the cabinet off a skyscraper.

Jules

loving_it · « **Reply #15 on:** 18 Sep 2013, 01:12 pm »