[Rclark]

Tom the reason I pointed it out is because if that was your experience then you truly did not get anything out if the amp. Had to leave the room after 5 minutes? Definitely not the
 Ncore. Your experience was unique.

[jtwrace]

I use one of the tube "character" inserts on a Metric Halo LIO-8 and it is a great match direct to the NCores (IMO).

That works too.    

[OzarkTom]

Tom the reason I pointed it out is because if that was your experience then you truly did not get anything out if the amp. Had to leave the room after 5 minutes? Definitely not the
 Ncore. Your experience was unique.

You are 100% right, not the Ncores fault. I would say the Ncores was so revealing that it was just telling me how dirty my AC was.

[Rclark]

What do you think makes it so bad out there? It's nice living in the PNW, where we have lots of good constant power.

[DaveC113]

So far, the majority of the subjectively best sounding source electronics seems to be from tubes (especially with digital).   Remember, source components are are all generally Class A topologies, and many folks still do not like Op Amps for preamp usage.

Tubes and the latest Class D seem to be an excellent match.

Tubes are a far better option for voltage amplification vs SS, this is difficult if not impossible to dispute. It is the power buffer or impedance matching with the speaker where the playing field is a lot more level. For higher power applications I would favor a hybrid design like the Moskido topology where the Aikido tube input section does all the voltage amplification and it runs through a Mosfet buffer with zero gain for the output section.

[OzarkTom]

What do you think makes it so bad out there? It's nice living in the PNW, where we have lots of good constant power.

Dunno, wish I knew. This has been going on for nearly 30 years. I live in a small podunk town here in the Ozarks.

[OzarkTom]

Tubes are a far better option for voltage amplification vs SS, this is difficult if not impossible to dispute. It is the power buffer or impedance matching with the speaker where the playing field is a lot more level. For higher power applications I would favor a hybrid design like the Moskido topology where the Aikido tube input section does all the voltage amplification and it runs through a Mosfet buffer with zero gain for the output section.

I would llike to try next the Rogue Audio Hydra. That is Bruno's Hypex UCD module with a tube front in and mosfet outputs for $2950.

[doug s.]

I might end up taking Doug S's suggestion to try out a Melos.

i think my melos may have finally met its match.  not sure, as i would need to check it out in my own system.  but since the purity audio preamp i heard costs $15k, i don't think it is gonna happen any time soon.   

doug s.

[OzarkTom]

Are you using the Melos GK-1? I sold a lot of those back in the days.

[Rclark]

Doug, those Purity preamps are visually beautiful. I believe the full SE version is around $20,000. There's a review of them here. Are you using the Melos right now? Or is that back in there with your endless stacks of gear? 

[doug s.]

the melos ma333r has been a mainstay in my system for many years.  it was modded by m.a.r., including a tube wolume pot designed by mark porzilli, to replace his excellent ldr photentiometer, which was fantastic, but extremely problematic; wery sensitive to shipping damage.  when i bought my ma333r, the p.o. had already replaced the photentiometer pot w/the less transparent alps pots that melos started using before they went under.  the pre was great then, but the mods, and then the later addition of the tube pot made it even better.  mark has said he is going to re-open a repair/upgrade shop; but it must have been pushed to the back burner, as it should have happened last year.  i will certainly send mine out for his latest tweaks if it ever happens.

the purity reference starts at $10k, and goes up to $30k, for the ultra gt w/silver autoformer upgrade.  while they certainly look nice, it is the sound that makes it special, imo.  checking the model i am familiar with, it is the silver statement, which i believe retails for $20k, not $15k.

re: my "endless stacks of gear", it is mostly tuna.   

doug s.

[Rclark]

I remember you sending me a link for one, was about $500. Kind of mad I didn't grab it. Are they decent enough stock?

[doug s.]

I remember you sending me a link for one, was about $500. Kind of mad I didn't grab it. Are they decent enough stock?

the link i sent you, iirc,  was an sha-1 - an extremely simple headphone amp (that still garners great reviews, if you are into headfones), and a line stage w/3 inputs.  (some sha-1's had less.)  yes, it is still an excellent piece.  it's similar to the more versatile sha-gold-r which offers passive or active, multiple inputs, remote and balance controls.  the sha-gold-r's can go for ~$600-$1200, depending on condition, upgrades, etc.  they are all worth it, imo, even stock.  mine was stock and i enjoyed it for a couple years before initial upgrades.  and the first one i ever heard - a melos sha-gold-r - was excellent stock.

the sha-gold-r is a lot like mine, except the ma333r is fully dual mono, and the dual transformers are housed in a separate chassis, w/two umbilical cords to connect to the main pre...  (hearing an sha-gold-r in a store is what made me want to audition a melos in my home.  and a dealer who sold cary, audible illusions and rogue - other pre's i was considering at the time - told me he used to sell melos before they went under, and that if i could find a used sha-gold, it would be better than anything he could sell me from these companies. i had two of those three in my home and they sounded mid-fi compared to the melos i finally ended up with.)  older ma333's w/o remote are also out there...  i have seen them adwertized for anywhere between $1k to ~$2.5k; again, depending on condition, upgrades, whether or not single-ended or balanced.  i actually had a balanced wersion initially, but when i got the tube wolume pot upgrade, i had it paid for (was $700) by a guy who had a single-ended board, and wanted a balanced board.  i was happy to go single ended, as i don't run balanced inputs (i still have a balanced out), and the ma333 balanced has 3 inputs + 2 tape loops, vs the single-ended unit w/6 inputs plus 2 tape loops.  i like having the additional inputs.

doug s.

[dan92075]

What is the phase response of the NC400?  (for example the ICE amp datasheets disclose plots of the phase response)
With a bandwidth of 50kHz set by the LC filter required for reconstruction and filtering of the switching noise,  it seems there should be moderate phase and/or group delay at treble frequencies

In theory, one could equalize out the phase response if using an equalizer  (I have Audyssey so I believe that would fix the phase of the NC400),   but the group delay would not get fixed
The phase and/or group delay misalignments at treble frequencies would result in cymbals not having those long decays. . . I know a few people have mentioned that on this thread so just speculating out loud here if that is an issue?

And also wondering if that could be partially fixed by a time-domain equalizer like Audyssey? 

Any thoughts?

[Sonny]

And on that note, I have some updates for those interested.

Then I swapped my copper interconnects made by Tuan here on AC (called Sweet Spot Reveal I think) over to Morrow MA2's.  Keep in mind that I had bought these last fall and did extensive comparisons with the SSR's. With the Ampino, the Morrows had a tipped up frequency response and a thin sound compared to the SSR'S, which had more body and also much more micro dynamic nuance and subtlety. They were key to getting that "magic" performance in the midrange and live energy from the Ampino. Morrows just didn't have that magic, we're more analytical and thin, despite having more air to them.

Well, things have certainly changed now with the Ncores. That live energy and magic is back, with benefit of all the awesomeness of the Ncores.

Just goes to show that system synergies can be everything. Seemingly small changes can make a surprising differences. And components that you had discounted in thorough previous comparisons can suddenly completely change what they offer give other changes in the system. I have learned these lessons in the past, and they're what led me to keep the Morrow cables despite not really liking them. I'm really glad I did and that I had them on hand to try now.

Now, I'm not saying my search is over. I still might be interested in the right tube preamp eventually, or maybe going up the line in Morrow or even something else.  But my toe is tapping again for the first time in a while, and that's plenty enough for today 

Thanks for the honest feedback...I totally believe that "Synergy" is key!  What may work for one component doesn't always work for another!  I am glad that you found the right use for the Morrows even though they relegated my SSRs to the back burner.   
Tuan