[svadas]

While waiting for my center to be produced, I started looking at the adjustments that these new receivers can make.  While, I'm starting to think that the answer is to just turn off all correction, I came across something that I do not understand.  Since it seems posters here have a much better grasp of audio concepts than me I am hoping that someone can explain the following:

* Standing Wave Control                     

[M1]                                       
Main                                       Center                               Sub Woofer      Trim   +1.5dB
No.   Filter 1   Filter 2   Filter 3      No.   Filter 1   Filter 2   Filter 3      No.   Filter 1   Filter 2   Filter 3
Freq   74Hz   239Hz   101Hz      Freq   74Hz   239Hz   101Hz      Freq   74Hz   239Hz   101Hz
Q   2.6   9.8   9.8                              Q   2.6   9.8   9.8                              Q   2.6   9.8   9.8
ATT   3.5dB   1.0dB   3.5dB      ATT   3.5dB   1.0dB   3.5dB      ATT   3.5dB   1.0dB   3.5dB

I don't understand what the information means.  Would this at all be beneficial, or like the EQ it does..more harm than good?

btw this is not audyssey

[svadas]

oops

[geowak]

I've had a few AV receivers in the past decade. Give me a Marantz 2270 over any of them.

[jarcher]

What you've shown seems to be an option to do equalization of certain frequencies for v the main channels and the v subwoofer. I don't know why those three frequencies in particular. With out measuring and knowing in fact that one of those frequencies is causing standing waves in your room, I'd probably leave it alone /  turn it off.

Im finding that modern receivers can produce impressive sound - and better yet if v they have a "pure direct" mode. My $200 Panasonic home theater in a box never ceases to amaze me for the money. And the Marantz receivers are not to shabby.

[jsalk]

You have to be really careful with these types of auto EQ systems.  They are very powerful, but like I always say, "having the tools to do brain surgery doesn't make me a brain surgeon."

The problem is, these systems are doing more to correct for the room than the speakers.  So when they apply EQ, the speakers are no longer flat in terms of frequency response. 

Our speakers are typically VERY accurate to begin with.  They simply don't need EQ.  Now the room is a different situation.  But most of what can be beneficial will be the area below about 200Hz.  So I would never let an EQ system touch anything above that (that's must me - YMMV).

I can't tell you how many calls we had over the years from new owners who were happy with our speakers but not quite as happy as they expected.  When this happens, my first question is, "are you using Auddysey or something similar?"  If they answer yes, I ask them to turn it off and call me back.  That usually does the trick and they are extremely happy with the results.

I'm not saying do not use EQ.  But be careful and try to understand what you are doing.

- Jim

 

[ArthurDent]

Enemy        

To clarify, a lot of it is age related. Yes the features are nice, but I don't really want to have a degree in Computer Science to watch a movie in the evening. Nor, after a day slaving away over a hot computer do I want to sit down to another one to watch TV or a movie. Just too many options/features which in general never get used. I upgraded from my old surround Yamaha a year ago to a 5.1 Yamaha simply because movies are generally done in 5.1 & up mode now, and the old surround unit while set up for center & sub, wouldn't decode a 5.1. I'm a fan of the KISS principle, so after printing out 84 pages of manual, I went thru and set it up once. It's stayed pretty much the same since, and will continue that way. Too many options just leads to frustration & brain freeze in my case. YMMV. 

[mcgsxr]

Horses for courses in my mind.

If you are after high end 2 channel reproduction, I would suggest foe.  I would think there are bettter amplification choices for sure, for this application.

if you are after good multichannel reproduction on a budget, I think they are invaluable.  To be able to address standing waves in the bass, or play with delaying sound from a speaker or 2 that are out of the ideal position, I find them excellent.  I use 2 different MCACC setups with my Pioneer receiver - one for movies, and one for music.  The one for movies is closest to what the auto setup came up with.  I spent the time to play around with the music setting, and have neutralized much of what it "thought" it should do.

if you are after good multichannel reproduction with less concern for a budget, I am neutral.  If you have the opportunity to build the room, and optimally place the speakers, I would think the AV capabilities become less of a concern.

I am not lucky enough to be a Salk family member yet, but give me time!

[sdennie]

If you take the time to do it right, something like Audyssey XT32 can give very good results.  Specifically, using a tripod and level to get the microphone parallel to the floor and at the right height, using all the measurement positions as per the suggested positions, minimizing background noises, etc.  You may also need to tweak things a bit (speaker distances, crossovers, etc).  When I've haphazardly done the measurements and not bothered to fiddle with the settings afterwards, Audyssey does a terrible job and will definitely sour you to the idea of room correction software.  How much correction the room needs probably plays a factor in how good the results will be as well.  In a room that's already treated, the results from Audyssey are not very extreme and seem positive to me.  In an really poor room, the results are likely to just be a different flavor of poor.

[svadas]

Well I've zero'd out the acoustic EQ for the Songtowers. 

Still don't fully understand the "standing wave" control or the changes it made (which is separate from the traditional EQ).
This is MCACC. 
I know when I switched it off it sounded fuller.  Pioneer provides zero information other than "controls the effects of standing waves."  Leaning towards turning this off too as the frequencies it controls seem way too high to do anything other than color the sound.   Does a filter on 239 hz control a standing wave?

 

[glangford]

You might try AVS Forum where there will be a ton of users in the recievers and amps section. There is probably a dedicated thread for your reciever.

As far as eq goes, I generally like audyssey in my denon 3311ci avr.  For music i use audyssey flat, which seems to do little or nothing to the curve.  So in room the speakers are very flat indeed.  The feature I like about it is dynamic eq is it adjusts the frequency response depending upon volume.  (Think of the loudness button on old fashioned recievers, Fletcher/Munson Curve).  I frequently listen to music at ow to medium volumes and this is a nice feature as we all don't always listen at reference volume.  For movies I like dynamic volume which will enhance dialog frequencies and lower booming special effects, the feature's effects are adjustable.

[R Swerdlow]

Well I've zero'd out the acoustic EQ for the Songtowers. 

Still don't fully understand the "standing wave" control or the changes it made (which is separate from the traditional EQ).
This is MCACC. 
I know when I switched it off it sounded fuller.  Pioneer provides zero information other than "controls the effects of standing waves."  Leaning towards turning this off too as the frequencies it controls seem way too high to do anything other than color the sound.   Does a filter on 239 hz control a standing wave?

When a speaker is put into a room with walls, floor and a ceiling, reflected sounds can cancel or reinforce one another which alter the frequency response.  The automated room correction systems in newer AVR attempt to deal with this, with highly variable success.

At higher frequencies, hundreds of small peaks and dips can be measured in the frequency response.  Attempts to remove all these small deviations would result in colorations to the sound that may not be desirable.  The characteristic sound that makes a particular speaker attractive could be completely lost.  Even if the hundreds of small peaks and dips would be adjusted, it would only be correct for a single position in the room.  Moving your head just a few inches would require a completely different set of corrections.

At low frequencies, roughly 250 Hz and lower, the picture is different.  There are fewer peaks and dips, but they are much larger, and can persist over a much larger portion of the listening area.  They are almost always caused by bass sound reflected off of walls, floors, and ceilings adding to or canceling the sound coming directly from the speakers.  When reflected sound adds to the direct sound from the speaker, it results in standing wave peaks; and when reflected sound cancels with direct sound from the speaker, it results in standing wave dips.

Dips can't be corrected electronically.  Putting out more power at the dip frequency won't help.  If the original and reflected waves cancel each other, they will cancel at 1 watt or 1000 watts.  If you have major dips in the frequency response you can try repositioning your speakers, particularly the subwoofer.  Fortunately, dips in the bass response are typically not that noticeable.  When an instrument plays that particular frequency, the bass is lost, but the higher harmonics of the instruments tone are still there.  To some degree, your brain will fill in the missing information.

The situation is different for large low frequency standing wave peaks.  These peaks are what tend to shake the knick-knacks off the shelves and result in “one-note bass” sound or, even worse, an overall tubby bass sound.  Fortunately, this CAN be remedied electronically, and without drastically altering the characteristic sound of your speakers.  Typically a room can have 3 (or more) large peaks due to the distance between the front/back walls, left/right walls, and the floor/ceiling.

Your receiver seems to already have 3 notch filters set up at 74, 101, and 239 Hz.  The frequencies of these peaks are in the range where I’d expect to see standing wave peaks in a typically sized room.  Note that these electronic notch or trap filters are at defined frequencies, are narrow, and attenuate the sound.  Was this set up before, by a previous owner, in a different room, or with different speakers?

I’ve heard of too many Salk speaker owners complaining that their receivers’ automated room correction sucked the life out their speakers’ sound.  But if your receiver’s room correction is limited to sound below 250 or 300 Hz, you might benefit from it.

[svadas]

Was this set up before, by a previous owner, in a different room, or with different speakers?

I’ve heard of too many Salk speaker owners complaining that their receivers’ automated room correction sucked the life out their speakers’ sound.  But if your receiver’s room correction is limited to sound below 250 or 300 Hz, you might benefit from it.

The values are selected by the receiver during the "set-up" process when the microphone is attached.