[quietglow]

I am asking this here because I figure that you guys, as analog fans, are probably the best source of info on tape. So a couple of questions:

1. Do any of you run RTR decks along with your turntables?
2. Where do you find commercially recorded music (assuming that you do still find it)?

Listening to a few reels at Axpona made me think I ought to find a deck. I did, a few days later (actually counting the one roscoeiii and I went to pick up, I found two). I sourced it from a friend who brought it back from Vietnam and it came with a stack of needle drops from various 70s albums. Those were okay, but I found a couple commercial recordings while on a roadtrip this week and these are pretty amazing. All jazz, all 7.5ips recordings. Very nice sound.

[Minn Mark]

I went through this phase recently myself. I have never owned RTR, but my sense is that 1) be prepared to spend money 2) to deal with mechanical problems, 3) that prerecorded source material is hard to come by. That said, I have three cassette decks which I have used for many years. For my ears, and in my system, prerecorded or home-made cassettes are very satisying, and overall a less expensive endeavor than RTR.  Just one man's opinon, YMMV and of course the devotees will counter my arguments with equal or greater vigor.

I own four TTs and 90+% of my listening is vinyl-- thats where I'm spending my disposable dollars lately--think about that as well.

All the Best,

Mark

[quietglow]

Thanks Mark.

What I am finding is that the stuff actually released commercially tends toward the only music genre that I really find no interest in: "light music" or however you want to label it. So it's not rock, it's light rock, light jazz etc. I'm guessing this had to do with the economics of music sales. When you find more serious music, the costs are exorbitant -- Coltrane reels seem to go for $300 or so. I can vaguely imagine paying the Tape Project (http://www.tapeproject.com/) those kinds of dollars if I had an unlimited supply of money, but for untested tapes from ebay, no way.

Too bad too as the sound of the well done recordings is phenomenal. Maybe it's because I grew up in the age of the cassette, but the RTR sound comes across to me as having the richness of vinyl with the familiar tape sound (maybe it's just hiss?). I can imagine that bypassing the built in pre-amp in favor of a tube stage would make it sound just that much sweeter. But why go through all that effort when the availability of source material is nearly nill?

Joe

[J-Pak]

Thanks Mark.

What I am finding is that the stuff actually released commercially tends toward the only music genre that I really find no interest in: "light music" or however you want to label it. So it's not rock, it's light rock, light jazz etc. I'm guessing this had to do with the economics of music sales. When you find more serious music, the costs are exorbitant -- Coltrane reels seem to go for $300 or so. I can vaguely imagine paying the Tape Project (http://www.tapeproject.com/) those kinds of dollars if I had an unlimited supply of money, but for untested tapes from ebay, no way.

Too bad too as the sound of the well done recordings is phenomenal. Maybe it's because I grew up in the age of the cassette, but the RTR sound comes across to me as having the richness of vinyl with the familiar tape sound (maybe it's just hiss?). I can imagine that bypassing the built in pre-amp in favor of a tube stage would make it sound just that much sweeter. But why go through all that effort when the availability of source material is nearly nill?

Joe

I agree with you. I am mostly interested in exceptional performances/music first and sound quality second. I'm not really interested in light jazz and blues.

The Tape Project is probably the only source for well known/historic albums. I've heard their Jimmy Smith The Sermon tape and it was exceptional; I've known that album for years and never heard it sound that good.

If there were more albums from Blue Note, Columbia jazz, Impulse! etc I wouldn't mind getting into tape.

[quietglow]

If there were more albums from Blue Note, Columbia jazz, Impulse! etc I wouldn't mind getting into tape.

Yes, exactly. And in further support of this, my fav of the three reels I picked up is a Verve release: Getz and Byrd. This is even a little jazz light-ish for me, but it just sounds so good.

I heard the Jazz Project's Lee Morgan Sidewinder release at Axpona, and it was phenomenal. I don't begrudge them the price they're charging at all. As Doc Bottlehead said when we were talking to him at Axpona, they're not making much on those things once you factor in licencing and materials. It's just that $500 albums (or even $300) are not ever going to be a live option for me.

Joe

[S Clark]

Tapes are out there, but not cheap.  Checking on ebay, they are as or more expensive than vinyl, and not nearly as durable a medium.  I've got my Teac RTR from the 70's, but it mostly just gathers dust.

[J-Pak]

Yes, exactly. And in further support of this, my fav of the three reels I picked up is a Verve release: Getz and Byrd. This is even a little jazz light-ish for me, but it just sounds so good.

I heard the Jazz Project's Lee Morgan Sidewinder release at Axpona, and it was phenomenal. I don't begrudge them the price they're charging at all. As Doc Bottlehead said when we were talking to him at Axpona, they're not making much on those things once you factor in licencing and materials. It's just that $500 albums (or even $300) are not ever going to be a live option for me.

Joe

I admire Dan for putting out some of the albums on The Tape Project. The Clifford Brown Memorial Album has a constant high frequency buzzing that happened during the recording session that would be very difficult to remove (maybe some modern digital workstation could do it with noise reduction). But the performances are amazing, some of the best hard bop ever recorded.

[neobop]

Yes, exactly. And in further support of this, my fav of the three reels I picked up is a Verve release: Getz and Byrd. This is even a little jazz light-ish for me, but it just sounds so good.

I heard the Jazz Project's Lee Morgan Sidewinder release at Axpona, and it was phenomenal. I don't begrudge them the price they're charging at all. As Doc Bottlehead said when we were talking to him at Axpona, they're not making much on those things once you factor in licencing and materials. It's just that $500 albums (or even $300) are not ever going to be a live option for me.

Joe

Getz and Byrd, is that the one with the black and orange cover?

Man this brings back some memories.  In high school I was at a boarding school.  I played in the dance band, a 16 piece regular big band.  My roommate was first trumpet, I was second trumpet.  He had a Wollensack and I had a Roberts. I joined the Columbia Record club selected RTR tape, and got 7 1/2, 1/4 track tapes in the mail.  Most of them had little stickers on the box that said Master Tape Duplication. When I went home on vacation I'd hook up my RTR to the stereo.  Holy Hanna, jumpin Jehoshaphat, this sounds real.  2 of my favorites were Jerry Mulligan Concert Jazz Band and Miles Davis Kind of Blue. That sound will be forever etched in my memory.

Those titles and many more are out there somewhere.  Whoever has them isn't giving them up.
neo

[Wayner]

I have a ReVox A77 1/2 track, high speed deck (7.5/15ips) that has no Dolby (doesn't need it) that I occasionally throw some LPs onto. Believe me when I tell you that you can make better copies off of LPs than from buying pre-recorded tape. Obviously, my half track puts me out of the 1/4 track market, but I used to have a 1/4 track ReVox, and did buy some pre-recorded tapes. I found that I could easily make better copies at home with my own records and table.

Why? 'Cause the pre-recorded tapes were at least 5th generation, and mass produced on high speed tape machines. I certainly love to record. Been doing that since I had my Aiwa RTR when I was about 14. That would be 45 years ago. I recorded lots of stuff off of the FM Stereo radio. That was lots of fun as I remember it.

Wayner

[Scott F.]

When it comes to tape, your first stop should be over at the What's Best Forum. They have a sub-forum dedicated to tape. Miles Astor is one of the regulars there.
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/forumdisplay.php?18-Reel-To-Reel


The R2R decks you see on eBay and Craigslist are fine for recreational use but the guys at the Tape Project have found a hand full of decks that stand head and shoulders above the rest. These are typically older pro machines and they need to be rebuilt and modified. It turn, that process gets really expensive, really quick.


Then there is source material. Schmalle and gotten his hands on some pretty nice Master Tapes to replicate. Trouble is they are very limited and quite pricey.
http://www.tapeproject.com/


When it comes to buying tapes off eBay, first they are hit and miss. Tape (unlike vinyl), doesn't age well. Next, you don't want anything to do with any recordings done at 3 3/4"ips. They are truncated at the frequency extremes. 7 1/2ips tapes sound significantly better. In turn, you pay dearly for them on eBay and they can be played out.


There are a lot of really good 'bootlegs' floating amongst the tape guys. Getting your hands on those is almost impossible.


That said, I looked hard at getting into it and decided not to because of the limited source material and the cost of entry. If the source material had been there, I'd have gone for it but alas, it wasn't.


That doesn't mean you can't pick up a nice deck off eBay and buy all your source material from there too. It's a good option and [all in all] not too expensive.


Good tape blows away vinyl every time I've listened. Astor's copy of Yes, Fragile on a good deck is simply stunning. I also listened to some Ella on a 3rd generation tape that was literally to die for. I love tape. Too bad it's so expensive to do right.

[quietglow]

Getz and Byrd, is that the one with the black and orange cover?

No, that's Getz and Gilberto. The Getz and Byrd one looks like this:



I totally agree: the people who have the really good reels are keeping them sitting right on their shelves.

Well, I have my deck (it's a TEAC A-3000, an A-4XXXX rebadged for sale in military post exchanges). I'll keep my eyes open at yard sales and thrift stores for the good stuff.