[med]

Hello,

I am currently evaluating a friend's used BP-25 and PS Audio Digital Link III DAC, which I'm thinking of buying to replace the AV receiver I'm using as a pre/pro. Right now I only have a 2.0 setup so the multichannel functions of the receiver are redundant. I'm mainly looking for a higher quality 2 channel setup to use for the next few years until I get back into multichannel (needs a new house...).

I'm loving the BP-25 so far, but I noticed that for almost the same price my friend is asking for the BP-25+DAC, I can purchase a used SP1.7. Since from what I've read the analog section in the BP-25 is identical to the SP1.7, the additional functionality of the SP is starting to look attractive (remote power on, input switching, built in DAC, etc). I will also have some rudimentary 5.1/7.1 capabilities for when the time comes. I've done some searching and reading, and have a couple of unanswered questions regarding the SP1.7 that I hope someone may be able to help me with:

-How do the DACs in the SP1.7 stack up to modern stand-alone DACs such as the Digital Link III? Are they the same DACs that are used in the (still current) SP2?
-Based on the functional diagram in the SP1.7 manual, I assume that only analog inputs can be routed to the "Record" outputs, is this correct? I actually want this functionality so that only music sources are routed to the Record output. I would like to hook my whole-house music system into the Record out, and I don't want movies/TV playing everywhere in the house, but I DO want records and CDs feeding into it. I would love the ability to control the record output separately but the SP (and BP-25) don't support this.
-If you select a source with a digital and analog input present, does the SP default to digital, analog, or is the behaviour selectable by input (looking at the manual it seems it is selectable by input.... does it revert to a default you have configured or whatever the settings were last time the input was selected?)?
-If you select a source with only a digital input present, does the SP send anything at all out of the Record outputs?
-What is the limit on sample rate/bit depth the SP1.7 will accept on the TOSLINK and Coaxial SPDIF inputs? I can't seem to find this in the manual.
-Does anyone know what Bryston is doing with all the SP1.7s and SP2s received on trade-in for SP3? Are they being sold?

Thanks in advance!

Matt

[Phil A]

I've owned the SP 1.7 and different DACs, including the BDA-1.  The SP1.7 is a HT product and while the DACs are not horrible and it sounds just like a BP-25 in 2-channel bypass, the DACs are piggyback with the DSP so they are not likely going to be as good a modern decent separate DAC and a BP-25 for 2-channel music.  It's been a while since I owned the SP1.7 so I have to think about the other questions

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Thanks Phil! I suspected that might be the case with the DAC. It is still likely a step up from the DAC in my a/v receiver that I'm using now

[Phil A]

Thanks Phil! I suspected that might be the case with the DAC. It is still likely a step up from the DAC in my a/v receiver that I'm using now

That is likely true.  If you can find the now discontinued BP16-DA model, you can have a built in DAC and a 2-channel preamp with HT Bypass and have the receiver for surround.

[med]

That is likely true.  If you can find the now discontinued BP16-DA model, you can have a built in DAC and a 2-channel preamp with HT Bypass and have the receiver for surround.

Just what I need; more options! That option looks really good though... I also found some stale postings selling them for around the same price as used SP1.7s. The HT Bypass is a great feature that I wish the BP-25 had.

[brucek]

That is likely true.  If you can find the now discontinued BP16-DA model, you can have a built in DAC and a 2-channel preamp with HT Bypass and have the receiver for surround.

Agreed.

There have been so many advances and changes in surround sound systems that I don't think I could bring myself today to lay out $10K on a state of the art HT processor that may be obsolete in short order. Surround sound is not what I consider critical listening, so any run of the mill $1K receiver (Denon, etc) from FutureShop will suffice. Change it out every five years and there's no real investment lost.

High quality stereo doesn't appear to have that same short lifecycle, so investing in a high quality 2 channel analog preamp with internal DAC and HT bypass may be the best long term solution.

Case in point. I thought a Bryston SP1 was the ticket about 13 years ago. I bought one, and then it became obsolete, so in 2006 I upgraded it to an SP2. It's a nice processor, but it's basically obsolete again. It can't accept HDMI or USB. It has no voice lip-sync delay, so it's not that useful for HT any more since the sound lags the video on my HDTV. It doesn't process any of the newer Dolby True-HD and DTS HD-Master Audio soundfields. What it does really, really well is serve as an excellent preamp in bypass mode. No complaints there.

If I had invested in an analog preamp with HT bypass years ago, I could have purchased the latest and greatest disposable $1K receiver every five years and I would be state of the art today and forever.

brucek

[med]

Thanks for the feedback brucek. I guess there is a lot more to an HT processor than DD and DTS decoding. Sounds like a dedicated two channel analog unit is the way to go. Since I could conceivably find both the BP-25 and BP-16 with an integrated DAC, which is considered the better option from a quality perspective? Is either DAC option considerably better or are they similar.

Both units have some pluses and minuses....

BP-25 has external power supply (with an upgrade available in the MPS-1) but no HT bypass
BP-16 has more functionality (input switching, power) from the remote but no balanced ins/outs

And the list goes on. None of these options are perfect but I'm sure I can find the right one.

[Phil A]

Agreed.

There have been so many advances and changes in surround sound systems that I don't think I could bring myself today to lay out $10K on a state of the art HT processor that may be obsolete in short order. Surround sound is not what I consider critical listening, so any run of the mill $1K receiver (Denon, etc) from FutureShop will suffice. Change it out every five years and there's no real investment lost.

High quality stereo doesn't appear to have that same short lifecycle, so investing in a high quality 2 channel analog preamp with internal DAC and HT bypass may be the best long term solution.

Case in point. I thought a Bryston SP1 was the ticket about 13 years ago. I bought one, and then it became obsolete, so in 2006 I upgraded it to an SP2. It's a nice processor, but it's basically obsolete again. It can't accept HDMI or USB. It has no voice lip-sync delay, so it's not that useful for HT any more since the sound lags the video on my HDTV. It doesn't process any of the newer Dolby True-HD and DTS HD-Master Audio soundfields. What it does really, really well is serve as an excellent preamp in bypass mode. No complaints there.

If I had invested in an analog preamp with HT bypass years ago, I could have purchased the latest and greatest disposable $1K receiver every five years and I would be state of the art today and forever.

brucek

I agree 100% and that's exactly what I did when I sold the SP1.7 a few years back.  I bought a used Integra DTC 9.8 HT Processor (not hooked up at the present as I am going to move in about a year and the main system is 2-channel until then and I'll sell the Integra at some point) which sounds great on HT  (not what I would consider for 2-channel) and after the move I'm taking my 2-channel amp and 3-channel amp and will be doing 9.1 or 9.2 and will get a nice receiver (probably a factory refurb like the Onkyo 1008 I have the basement system from accessories4less.com) and use the amps for the height and back channels.  I'm getting rid of some things now for the move and it is not out of the question that I may look for a used BP-16 at some point to go with my old 3BST in a secondary system.  I can have great 2-channel and just get a new receiver every five years.

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I aspire to one day be using a BP16 and 3BST in a SECONDARY system

The BP16-DA looks like a great option.

Am curious about some of the behaviour of the Record loop outputs when using digital sources. I can't seem to find a functional block diagram for it... do digital sources get sent out the Record loop output (sans volume and balance of course)?

Also, are the digital inputs "assignable" to the DVD, Aux, etc inputs, or do you have to enter digital mode and then sleect which digital input you would like?

[Phil A]

I aspire to one day be using a BP16 and 3BST in a SECONDARY system

The BP16-DA looks like a great option.

Am curious about some of the behaviour of the Record loop outputs when using digital sources. I can't seem to find a functional block diagram for it... do digital sources get sent out the Record loop output (sans volume and balance of course)?

Also, are the digital inputs "assignable" to the DVD, Aux, etc inputs, or do you have to enter digital mode and then sleect which digital input you would like?

I am not sure how the BP16 works.  I know on the SP 1.7 there were two versions, a pro version (which I had) and a regular verson.  The pro version has a balanced digital input and the regular version had two toslink digital inputs.  Each of the digital inputs was coaxial and for a specific input on the unit (i.e. TV, CD).  You could assign one of the toslink inputs to something instead (i.e. TV or DVD where the source components had no coaxial digital out).  If you are getting something for HT bypass and want to distribute things, I'd think you want want a receiver with an additional zone output, which I believe would handle what you want.  No it may not be the quality of a BP16, but I guess it depends on what you use if for (your priority for quality in that secondary room.  In my new place I had outdoor speakers wired to the master bedroom system and garage speakers wired to a spare bedroom system for that purpose,  In the current place I have speaker wire going from the master bedroom to 4 other places and and from the main system to two other places.  I used to sell more things than I do now.  I tend to rotate things to secondary systems and if things are obsolete and don't have much value, I generally give it away or sell it for cheap to someone who wants it.  I'll probably do that with a couple of things sometime this year (I've already sold some things really cheap and given some things away).

[med]

....  If you are getting something for HT bypass and want to distribute things, I'd think you want want a receiver with an additional zone output, which I believe would handle what you want.  No it may not be the quality of a BP16, but I guess it depends on what you use if for (your priority for quality in that secondary room. .....

I don't necessarily need the quality of a BP16 to feed the rest of the house. The problem is that some sources (phono preamp for example) I would like connected to the 2 channel setup for serious listening, and also connected to the distribution system for playing records around the house. I'm also trying to remove the HT receiver from my system for now (less equipment and clutter) until I have a proper dedicated room a few years from now.