[redsierra]

Hello.  I only have the SP2 and unfortunately no cash to upgrade now.  My question is regarding HD audio.  Technically speaking what happens if you select an HD format knowing that the SP2 isn't capable of playing it properly.  I am watching/listening to a Heart BluRay right now.  The Dolby Digital 5 sounds quite a bit better than the DTS HD.  The DTS HD seems muddy or veiled.  When watching/listening to another BluRay there didn't seem to be much difference between DD and DD HD.

[Mag]

The Blu-ray player should be able to decode these formats to pcm. The SP2 will then process the pcm to the soundfield that you are using.

Try different audio tracks if available, pcm track usually sounds the best, then dts, then Dolby, but not always because it depends on the bite rates, the higher bite rates sound better.

[redsierra]

OK....for a guy with reasonably pricey system as I have.....I should know this stuff, so please forgive me, but:

To be clear, the SP2 is capable of decoding regular DTS and DD.  Why would I set it to PCM?  What will that do?  What would the advantage be?  Again, as asked in my previous question if the processor can't decode the HD DTS or DD then what happens?  What is the negative repercussion if any? 

Thanks!

[ragg987]

My understanding is that HD audio formats cannot be passed over the older SPDIF or Optical digital standard - not sure if this is a bandwidth limitation or one that is forced by lack of encryption support, either way it does not work.

Options:
1. Your player bitstreams (i.e. native DD or DTS) and sends to SP2 which handles decoding. Only applies to DD / DTS.
2. Your player decodes and sends as PCM to SP2. Only applies to DD / DTS.
3. Your player decodes, converts to analog and sends analog to SP2. Can apply to any format, inc HD formats. Can't recall if SP2 has 7.1 or 5.1 analog inputs
4. Your player decodes HD audio, downsamples and sends to SP2, or only uses the DD / DTS part of the HD stream.

It looks like you are seeing option 4. You should be able to tell by reading the display on the SP2 what type of signal it is receiving.

Which will sound best? Trial and error, I'm afraid, too many variables like quality of decoding and AD conversion in the bluray player vs quality in the SP2. Can also depend on SPDIF vs Optical, and ultimately on your systems ability (or your own ability) to resolve any differences in the sound.

[Mag]

OK....for a guy with reasonably pricey system as I have.....I should know this stuff, so please forgive me, but:

To be clear, the SP2 is capable of decoding regular DTS and DD.  Why would I set it to PCM?  What will that do?  What would the advantage be?  Again, as asked in my previous question if the processor can't decode the HD DTS or DD then what happens?  What is the negative repercussion if any? 

Thanks!

No you set the Blu-ray player to decode HD dts or Dolby Digital ES to pcm. The SP2 will detect the digital signal or analog signal if your Blu-ray has analog outs. With this pcm signal you can then select the soundfield and adjust the parameters to your liking with the SP2 processor.

 Take a movie like Expendables 2, the HD dts track can be played on a set up of 11.1 and is optimized for 7.1 Neo:x playback. Has a bitrate of up to 6.4 Mbps, whereas the Dolby Digital is a mere 224 kbps.

So with the SP2 using the decoded pcm signal of the HD dts, it can process this pcm signal up to 7.1 so you would only be losing the matrix for additional height & sound width.

With my system I'm using 5.1 in Neo:6 Cinema +THX and let me tell you this movie sounds as good or better than it did in our local state of the art theater.

Then you take a movie like Undersiege 1. The Dolby Digital soundtrack of is only 640 kbps which is no better than a dvd, but the picture quality sure looks good.

[redsierra]

My understanding is that HD audio formats cannot be passed over the older SPDIF or Optical digital standard - not sure if this is a bandwidth limitation or one that is forced by lack of encryption support, either way it does not work.

Options:
1. Your player bitstreams (i.e. native DD or DTS) and sends to SP2 which handles decoding. Only applies to DD / DTS. Saying native DD or DTS, you mean if it is HD DTS than that is what it will send to the SP2?
2. Your player decodes and sends as PCM to SP2. Only applies to DD / DTS.  This is still a obviously a digital signal, but only sends "regular" DTS and DD?  Do all HD audio signals still carry the "regular" DTS and / DD?
3. Your player decodes, converts to analog and sends analog to SP2. Can apply to any format, inc HD formats. Can't recall if SP2 has 7.1 or 5.1 analog inputs  Again, I guess this would be a trial by error process every time you play a DVD, but with my Oppo BluRay, I would think and hope that my Bryston would do a better job of the digital to analog conversion?
4. Your player decodes HD audio, downsamples and sends to SP2, or only uses the DD / DTS part of the HD stream.  Is this an automatic thing where it downsamples or is that dependant on a setting in the player?

It looks like you are seeing option 4. You should be able to tell by reading the display on the SP2 what type of signal it is receiving.

Which will sound best? Trial and error, I'm afraid, too many variables like quality of decoding and AD conversion in the bluray player vs quality in the SP2. Can also depend on SPDIF vs Optical, and ultimately on your systems ability (or your own ability) to resolve any differences in the sound.

Thanks!

[redsierra]

No you set the Blu-ray player to decode HD dts or Dolby Digital ES to pcm. The SP2 will detect the digital signal or analog signal if your Blu-ray has analog outs. With this pcm signal you can then select the soundfield and adjust the parameters to your liking with the SP2 processor.With selecting PCM on the player, if nothing else is selected on the SP2 then it is just played in the regular DD or DTS without any further processing....correct

 Take a movie like Expendables 2, the HD dts track can be played on a set up of 11.1 and is optimized for 7.1 Neo:x playback. Has a bitrate of up to 6.4 Mbps, whereas the Dolby Digital is a mere 224 kbps.

So with the SP2 using the decoded pcm signal of the HD dts, it can process this pcm signal up to 7.1 so you would only be losing the matrix for additional height & sound width. So as a general statement would you say that the HD formats of audio really only provide you with more soundstage width and height....or is the SOUND actually better?

With my system I'm using 5.1 in Neo:6 Cinema +THX and let me tell you this movie sounds as good or better than it did in our local state of the art theater.

Then you take a movie like Undersiege 1. The Dolby Digital soundtrack of is only 640 kbps which is no better than a dvd, but the picture quality sure looks good.

Thank you!

[ragg987]

redsierra, suggest you take a look at the following link - explains the formats and what options you have better than i could.
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/1064

Bottom line - the SP2 cannot receive the full multi-channel HD audio stream. In all likelyhood the bluray player is sending a subset of the HD audio - the DD or DTS "core", or downsampling. I believe these are automatically done, though there might be some options in your bluray player to control these.

[Mag]

>>With selecting PCM on the player, if nothing else is selected on the SP2 then it is just played in the regular DD or DTS without any further processing....correct<<

One way or the other the formats are decoded to pcm whether through an av/receiver that has the built in decoders for the format or from the Blu-ray player that can decode the format to pcm.

With the format decoded to pcm you can then process the pcm signal in Dolby, Neo:6, stereo or one of the other soundfields. If you prefer Dolby then read the manual as to how you can adjust the parameters to your preferred listening style.

>>So as a general statement would you say that the HD formats of audio really only provide you with more soundstage width and height....or is the SOUND actually better?<<

They sound better, but the quality of the recording still has to be good. 6.4 Mbps is equivalent to something like 48k sample rate 24 bit. Whereas standard dvd would be 48k sample 16 bit. The extra bits is noticeable in a more omnidirectional bass for LFE, dialog is usually better as well.

[Mag]

Correction: 6 Mbps is comparable to 96k sample rate 24 bit.

Link:
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-13817_7-6462511-4.html