"Bookshelf" Speaker with Bass?

Chuck · « **on:** 2 Jun 2004, 01:07 pm »

Greetings. I am interested in opinions on bookshelf speakers with "good" bass.

I know there are many well regarded bookshelf designs with holographic imaging, that are ultra-transparent, that have lush vocals, etc. Out of these designs, which also has the "best" bass.

I would define "best" first and foremost as articulate and clean (low distortion). Next I would say output is important followed by depth.

I will be powering these with a 30wpc tube amp so I think efficient speakers are called for.

I think I would also limit the cost to $2,500 USD.

Opinions?

eico1 · « **Reply #1 on:** 2 Jun 2004, 01:49 pm »

Quote from: Chuck

I will be powering these with a 30wpc tube amp so I think efficient speakers are called for...

Unfortunately, the smaller the speaker the less efficient the bass!

My favorite minitors with bass though are the old Seifert Research Maxim IIIs, which again unfortunately aren't made anymore. They really had a bottom!

steve

moltosolo · « **Reply #2 on:** 2 Jun 2004, 02:42 pm »

I think you will like a good sat/sub combo.
There are quite choices, Omega speaker/CSS sub, Von Schweikert VR1/VRS1 sub...etc.
If you don't want a sat/sub, try Reference 3A speakers.

mca · « **Reply #3 on:** 2 Jun 2004, 03:56 pm »

I would check into the Reference 3A MM De Capo-i. It's a very highly regarded standmount speaker that fits in right at the top of your budget.
It also looks to do bass very well for it's size. Head over to Ecoustics.com and check out all the great reviews. There is also an owners circle here that you can probably get lots of info from also.

jackman · « **Reply #4 on:** 2 Jun 2004, 04:13 pm »

I don't know of any small bookshelf speakers that are efficient and have great bass. I'm listening to a speakerv designed by Dennis Murphy that has great bass (5.5" Revelator/Hiquopon OW1 tweet) but they are very inefficient. No way 30wpc could power these. If you have the power, these have solid bass down to about 35hz. That's more than I ever thought you could get out of a 5.5" woofer in a cabinet with an internal volume of about .6 cu ft.

Chuck · « **Reply #5 on:** 2 Jun 2004, 04:15 pm »

Thank you for the suggestion. Alas, I've been the sub-sat route before. While I won't rule it out. I have never been satisfied with the results in the past. I have found it difficult to integrate a subwoofer with bookshelf speakers within my self-imposed limitation requiring that the sub be small (14" cubed). Also, I found that room placement of the sub is critical. This usually meant placing the sub somewhere out in middle of the room. Also not an option with three kids/decor/WAF.

I am hoping to find a good bookshelf speaker that provides enough bass to be musically satisfying with most recorded material. I think that will provide the most long-term enjoyment for me.

...also if it can be drop-dead gorgeous, flat down to 16 hz with 125 dbl output, under $500.00, um, sorry; just wishful thinking again. Anyway I guess I am looking for the best compromise. I think a good bookshelf speaker with some decent bass will provide the best compromise for me so I can get off this merry-go-round and just enjoy the music. Peace.

Chuck · « **Reply #6 on:** 2 Jun 2004, 04:34 pm »

That's two for the Reference 3A. Looks like I will be researching these this afternoon.

And a bookshelf that hits 35 hz solid! That is as good as these gianormous floorstanders I am auditioning. I'd hate to hafta go amp shopping again but...

Where can I get more info on those? At 35hz I doubt I would ever miss a sub. Do they do the other things well (big soundstage, imaging, great natural vocals, etc.)? I am willing to go over budget for something in a bookshelf that can hit 35hz solid and still do the other things well!

davejcb · « **Reply #7 on:** 2 Jun 2004, 04:41 pm »

Here. Check out the Royal Master and Royal Virtuoso too, better bass, obviously more expensive. I have the Royal Master, very impressive bass.

moltosolo · « **Reply #8 on:** 2 Jun 2004, 04:44 pm »

Well, if changing the amp is an option.
I would suggest an active monitor from Dynaudio Acoustics, the BM15A.
It can do 30Hz solid and also image wonderful. You will need a nice tube preamp.

http://www.dynaudioacoustics.com/Default.asp?Id=279&AjrNws=118&AjrNwsPg=1

Carlman · « **Reply #9 on:** 2 Jun 2004, 04:56 pm »

2 speakers I've heard with surprisingly good bass for their size:
GR Research Diluceo
Revel M20

The GR really surprised me at how good it was at everything. I couldn't afford them so, they weren't an option but, are within your budget.

The Revel M20 sounds different in many ways but overall is a more punchy speaker than the GR. However, it too is a great bass provider.

So, there's 2 totally different sounding speakers that meet your criteria.

Good luck.

Red Dragon Audio · « **Reply #10 on:** 2 Jun 2004, 05:01 pm »

Quote from: Chuck

That's two for the Reference 3A. Looks like I will be researching these this afternoon.

And a bookshelf that hits 35 hz solid! That is as good as these gianormous floorstanders I am auditioning. I'd hate to hafta go amp shopping again but...

Where can I get more info on those? At 35hz I doubt I would ever miss a sub. Do they do the other things well (big soundstage, imaging, great natural vocals, etc.)? I am willing to go over budget for something in a bookshelf that can hit 35hz solid and still do the other things well!

Chuck,

The de capos will do all those things you listed plus they offer another benefit that many typical speakers don't; direct coupling of the amp to the speaker. Since the de capos don't have a crossover on the main driver, the amp has absolute control over it. The tweeter just has one cap on it so not much in the way of music there. This is one of the main things that makes the de capos so engaging and musical.

I don't know how solid 35Hz will come through in your room but that will depend greatly on how you set up the speakers/listening seat. The de capos have 8" drivers so good solid bass isn't a big problem for them. Often times people will think you are hiding a sub somehwere.

As far as amps go with the de capos, well you pick what you want and it will pretty much sound good. Many de capo owners, myself included, have found great success with SET tube amps. I personally feel SET is a great way to go as long as you have those more powerful versions. The 92dB sensitivity rating is higher than average but still isn't all that sensitive. Personally the minimum I think proper for de capos could be 8watts if you are sitting within 8ft and don't listen to large scale orchestral pieces or blaring NIN.

Currently I am using a digital amp from Panasonic, the SA XR45, and it sounds gorgeous. I never in a million years thought I would say that but it does sound darn right appealing/sultry. It's not quite as sexy as a tube amp but it sure has a super clear midrange, tight low bass, and extended airy highs (with a slight bit of glare that can be fixed with a few minor modifications).

Anyway, I am drifting off the topic here but with the De capos you can't go wrong. There are a couple for sale on audiogon right now but they go pretty quickly. http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1091217817

WEEZ · « **Reply #11 on:** 3 Jun 2004, 01:22 am »

Consider the Speaker Art Super Clef...

WEEZ

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #12 on:** 3 Jun 2004, 04:41 am »

Here's a speaker thats inexpensive, good sounding, easy on the eyes, and has pretty good bass, and has a circle here on AudioCircle....the Shamrock Audio Keelin's.... http://www.shamrockaudio.com/keelin.htm . I own a pair , and I'm very happy with them .

Chuck · « **Reply #13 on:** 3 Jun 2004, 01:06 pm »

Looks like I have some homework to do. A lot of very nice looking speakers here with good reputations. Now to decide...

BikeWNC · « **Reply #14 on:** 7 Jun 2004, 02:35 pm »

I own the GR Research Diluceos that Carl heard. They are rated F3 at 55 hz, though in my room, 5 ft from the wall behind them I get bass to around 45 hz before rolling off pretty quickly. I do use a Rel sub crossed over at 25 Hz and that fills in the low end quite well. I agree that sub placement is critical but if you have that flexiblity can provide very good bass in smaller rooms. Also, acoustic treatment is pretty much mandatory to realize the bass potential of your system.

Andy

Chuck · « **Reply #15 on:** 8 Jun 2004, 12:34 pm »

I ordered the Von Schweikert LCR-15. Hope to have it by next week. I was a little concerned that the Reference 3A would be too revealing of my very modest system. Some owners mentioned the Ref 3A required careful component matching and that swayed my final decision.

Thanks everybody for your help!

Jim W. · « **Reply #16 on:** 24 Jun 2004, 05:44 pm »

I don't have experience with the F200A, but I've read great things about the driver. I do own the Omega Super 3R with Alnico F120A. Good enough for me

, to say the least.

Call Louis at Omega and at least talk with him.

Jim

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #17 on:** 25 Jun 2004, 04:11 am »

The Quad 11L has only a 5" woofer, and an-oh-so-very-easy-on-the-ears silk tweeter, and plays suprising deep for it's size. Rear ported, so it's not really a bookshelf (needs a little space in back to breathe)

For a bit more impact, go for the 2 way 12L (6.5" Kevlar impreganted cone...ditto the 5") and the same tweeter if you can fit it.

The finishes make your heart stop..I have the rosewood, and it is beeee-utiful. They are made entirely in China and start at $700.00 MSRP.

All the Britsh rags have gone ga-ga over them.

Just in case the Von Schweikerts don't make it to ya'...missed your post the first time. Enjoy, whatever!