[MRC]

I've been adjusting VTA for every record I play (visually checking cartridge height relative to the record), and the Amadeus turns up an improved performance everytime.
Let me correct that - when you adjust VTA for the record you are going to play, you don't get a performance; you go through an experience.

I'm determined to try and find a way of getting VTA on the fly for the Amadeus - no, damping is not an issue - an average damping position is enough, and VTA is far more important.

Does anyone know if the VTA adjusters available out there might work with the Amadeus's tonearm pillar?

[mick wolfe]

The whole WTA arm pillar system would have to be re-engineered to accommodate such an "on the fly" set-up. If you went that far, you might as well design it
to raise and lower the damping cup and arm pillar as a unit. .....and don't forget the remote. I've had dozens of cartridges over the years and I've yet to find one
that was so sensitive to VTA that it had to be readjusted for every record.

[/mp]

Seeing micrometers for sale cheap at a flea market c. 20 years ago spawned an idea to adapt one into an adjustable VTA device for my WTA. Never got around to it. The most elegant variant mounts the micrometer horizontally. The micrometer shaft acts as a driveshaft turning a gear translating the horizontal rotational motion into the vertical plane. Threading vertical shafts to expand/contract allows for altering VTA. The outer ends of the vertical shaft terminate in small plates with square WTA mounting tower size holes in them. The WTA sits on the upper plate.  The micrometer's gearing allows very fine adjustments to be made and it's display allows repeating exact settings.

Feel free to use or adapt this design. Let me know what happens if you do.

/mp

[Erocka2000]

I think changing the VTA for every single record is a bit on the obsessive-compulsive side.  You risk changing the dampening and the alignment of the ball in the cup every time you loosen the nut on the pillar.  Why not set it on a medium thickness record and just leave it.  The difference is sound has to be negligible and is not worth the hassle.  Just my two cents.  YMMV

[MRC]

Mick; I think all you have to do is lower or raise the tonearm pillar. VTA/SRA changes are minute and if you have found a satisfactory setting for the silicone those won't make much difference for damping. I found an easy way to keep the alignment in the damping cup neat and stable; more on that next post so this one won't be too long- but it really works on my Amadeus.
Quite a few different records will prove sensitive to the cartridge play angle, in my experience. I own by now a large vinyl collection, with records from several decades and sources, and all of them relish a particular care.

/mp;
It sounds fantastic but I'm afraid I'm not capable enough, or qualified enough, to set up and install such a delicate and ingenious device. Please tell me if YOU actually will.  Thanks for sharing this amazing idea.

Erocka;
I know it sounds like going quite too far, but the fact is that we use one setting for a wide variety of recorded and pressed material - unless, of course, you happen to have but a few, label related records. The thing is - try it. I doubt you won't be missing the directness, freedom and dimensionality a fair VTA can deliver to a particular pressing. It won't make a bad record a good one, but, given the right setup, it will give it a very fair chance. At the very least, it will be fun. I just went through three sides with different VTAs and had a great time - I remember going through one side with a neglected height setting and feeling that a whole lot was missing.

Thanks for letting the Circle know what you think - this is a great debate, I believe. And fun.

[threadkiller]

My head hurts just trying to comprehend or visually imagine what you are doing.  Lol

Still, it's your table/experience/hobby so go for it.  I will not be able to follow this thread any longer, however. Such OCD behavior sets my own mind off somehow.
I will say Firebaugh, in all his experimenting/theorizing, would scoff at this.

Best, and enjoy,
Chas

[MRC]

Yes, Mr Firebaugh and Frank Denson did not particularly go for this area of adjustment- I wrote to Frank about it, and he said, well ok, take care not to overtighten while you are at it.  (Good advice).
They delivered a great turntable/tonearm to the world, but don't seem to be interested in VTA for a particular pressing/vinyl thickness.

But think about how many times people scoffed at the idea of a golf ball and a fishing thread to drive a platter. And vinyl in an age of digital, streams and rush? Nonsense. Scoff.

Too bad you won't be joining the debate Chas; it's always great to find ways to get better sound. And this is so simple.

Take care.

[roscoeiii]

I don't know that Firebaugh would scoff. Any design has compromises, whether they be budgetary (see WTA's lack of suspension for one possible example), or mechanical. The WTA compromises on easy VTA adjustment, likely because the other benefits of the WAT design are thought to outweigh minute VTA adjustment's importance. But maybe the silicon damping is worth it. And tables ultimately have different sound signatures, and different people will prefer different signatures as a result of their own listening preferences (for example, I chose the slightly better bass of the Townshend Rock over the slightly better treble of the WTA).

Best of luck in your minute VTA adjustment quest on the WTA. Quite the commitment to both the WTA and VTA.

[MRC]

Great points roscoeiii, thanks very much.

Had an amazing time spinning last night (Roxy Music's first, an eighties repress) and a few others.

Unfortunately I never listened to a T rock; I came from a Michell Gyrodec with a unipivot, but I'll try to check it out.

All the best...

[SteevA]

Adjusting VTA on the Versalex is relatively simple since all arm parts are mounted at one point.  I have however not detected any changes with sub 1/2mm (i.e. record thickness variability) adjustments.

Steve

[MRC]

Hi Steve,

Changes are to be found when a particular record is giving you a hard time and everything is set up as usual. Those cases are the ones which beg for an individual setting. Sometimes it's just a bad pressing, but it'll make a difference anyhow. I'll soon post a method to perform VTA with the WT tonearm without it getting messy - because it can. It's simple and obvious, really. The Versalex has the advantage of combining damping and height together, I say go for it.

Best,

[MRC]

(This is the text I sent to Frank of WT)

Fiddling with the azimuth adjuster and arm pillar, I spent the best part of an hour horizontally centering the golf ball as well as can be in the silicone cup.
That done, I placed a small rectangular white sticker on the tonearm pillar. After that, I placed an identical white sticker on the chassis, at the pillar base, 90 degrees to the sticker on the pillar.

This marks exactly the point in which the golf ball is centered relative to the silicone cup when seen from above.

Now, if I wish to alter VTA for a particular record, all I have to do is raise or lower the tonearm, maintaining visual symmetry between the two white stickers - it works wonderfully and cleanly. Yes, I alter immersion in the silicone very slightly, but having already found average damping, this is not important.


Of course, if you live exclusively on a Blue Note or Mobile Fidelity diet, this won't be significant. But if you own records from several sources and periods in time, it will be. Enjoy.

[code4246]

interesting you find minute adjustments to vta audibly important yet ignore same with changes in damping ?

 

[MRC]

Hi Code,

That's a very interesting point.
I do not ignore changes in damping; I have no doubt that the damping factor is vital for the WT tonearm. But I do find it less relevant in terms of the minute changes which are crucial for VTA (or SRA, not the same topic, but inevitably linked).

However, when VTA changes due to record thickness make for clearly different damping (looking at the fluid line on the ball) I do raise or lower the cup to a fluid line level I had settled on as ok for me - using a Clearaudio Virtuoso MM at the moment. It's instinctive and compensating - I've been having lot's of fun with my music lately.

[JakeLA]

I've been having lot's of fun with my music lately.

This sounds like the opposite of fun to me. 

[threadkiller]

Lol.  I used to say the same thing.
Now, I'm reformed.  As long as one's not giving bad advice, like it is an absolute, I say go for it.
I wouldn't want to spin records with him, but it's his listening room, not mine.

[SteevA]

By my calculations a full 1mm difference in the thickness of a record would cause about 0.2° change in VTA.  Thankfully my ears are just not that sensitive.

I think if I even began to suspect that I needed to adjust VTA for each record my CDP would be getting a lot more use than it currently is.

But, yes, to each his own.

Steve

[MRC]

Guys,
if you're ever in the neighbourhood you're more than welcome to a listening session- and some glasses of red wine- maybe listening first and some wine after!

Still, there's some interesting info going round on the WWW if you're interested in detailed accounts and experiments. It's not ALL fun but it is intriguing... I'd say keyword for searches are VTA, SRA, stylus, record surface... and I'd say that Mr. Roy Gregory has been an Audio name linked to the VTA debate for awhile (with a few controversies along the way). Keep'em coming...