[magister]

Hi guys,

I'm just getting into digital audio; please forgive newbie questions.  I bought a Marantz 7004 network music player and currently use a small external USB drive connected to it to store high-res downloads.  The Marantz is not connected to my home network (no wiring in the listening room); I am not interested in things like internet radio at the moment, although that might change in the future.  I wanted to control the player using Marantz's remote app via my iPad, which meant I had to buy a basic router and set up an ad-hoc network consisting of the Marantz and the router only.

This is working well; I really like the sound of the high-res downloads.  The hierarchical folder/file structure that I use to store and access music with the little USB drive is OK, but a) I would like to be able to access liner notes and album art and b) as my collection grows, the menu structure is going to get more irritating and I will want some better way to organize and access my music.

So my questions: if I understand correctly, I can get a NAS drive to plug into the router that will act as a server and work with iTunes.  I've seen info about such NAS drives from Buffalo, for instance, although I'm sure there are other brands out there. 
a) Is this right?
b) Any suggestions for brands/models of NAS drives?
c) Are there alternatives to iTunes that will work in such situations?  I listen to a lot of classical music and iTunes isn't the best for organizing classical because it does not deal with all the metadata available with classical recordings.

Thanks - Daivd

[srb]

Hi David,
 
There are a number of good NAS enclosures available from Buffalo, Netgear, QNAP, Synology and others.  I currently am using a Synology NAS and have had good performance and reliability for almost three years, so I will probably get another Synology when I upgrade from my single drive enclosure to a multi-drive enclosure.
 
Many of the NAS units have internal iTunes server software that can share its library to any computer running iTunes.  However, when you view an iTunes shared library on another PC or Mac running iTunes, the shared library (and whatever playlists you have setup) only appear in a list view without the album art.  There are also no album group with album art views or cover flow views.
 
Better usability can be had by simply using a NAS shared network folder as the media folder for iTunes or whatever media player software you decide to use.
 
iTunes, as you've noted, has limited metadata and and the sound quality potential is not as good on a PC as it is on a Mac.
 
You didn't say whether you are using a PC or Mac.  But if you are using a Windows PC, I recommend J. River Media Center, which will give you more complete metadata tags, more extensive features and options, native FLAC capability, and if you are using Windows Vista or later, you can use the WASAPI sound driver to bypass the internal Windows sound mixer and get better sound than you can with iTunes.
 
Steve

[magister]

Thanks for the suggestions about NAS drives, Steve.  I should have made clear that I don't have a computer attached to the stereo, and would prefer not to.  I download my hi-res tracks on a windows machine and transfer them to the USB drive attached to the Marantz network player.  I use FLAC files.  If possible, I'd like to control everything from my iPad, avoiding the need for a computer.

David

[srb]

Sorry, when you mentioned iTunes or other player software I thought you wanted to transition from the NA7004 to computer-based playback.
 
While most NAS' have a DLNA media player service that can be enabled to allow wired or wireless network audio players like the NA7004 to access their music library storage, the organization of files and display of metadata tags will depend upon the capability of the streaming players internal software, and unfortunately,  the information displayed is often limited to Track #, Time, Name, Artist, Album and Album Art, regardless of what other metadata tags may be embedded in the file.
 
With only your NA7004 and a NAS, I think that's all you'll be able to do.  If you add your computer to the network you could take advantage of the the J. River features, while still only having your NA7004 connected to the stereo.
 
The scenario would work like this:  J. River Media Center would be your music database and player with its library being a shared folder on the NAS.  J. River would then be enabled as a DLNA server to send its output to your DLNA capable NA7004 and the iPad would control J. River browsing and playback with the My River iPad app.
 
The only performance caveat might be that I don't think the Windows ASIO or WASAPI drivers would work with DLNA, but the sound could be compared between the J. River DLNA server and the NAS (direct) DLNA server.
 
This takes away the requirement of having the computer connected to your stereo, but if you don't want the computer running at all, then you always have the option to play the NA7004 directly off the the NAS, similar to what you're doing now, except with network attached storage instead of a directly connected USB drive.
 
I don't have a media streamer device and haven't tested this out myself, so perhaps someone who is actually using J. River > DLNA streamer might chime in with their experience.
 
Steve

[richidoo]

Think of a NAS as a fileserver, sitting on your network ready to serve files to any client. The networking task is the hardest thing it has to do, so it doesn't require a powerful CPU and can run linux so it can be inexpensive. I have a Netgear ReadyNAS, it is a good design, with great features and processor capable of running extra processes, but the cooling fan is loud. I have also used DLink DNS-323 on a few occasions, but I see that one is being phased out. It was cheap and fanless. There are many on the market now with varying levels of features.  Streaming audio files is very easy work, even high res files and 10Mb wired connection is good enough.

If you want a nicer music library interface than the Marantz' own, you will need to run a computer within USB cable distance of the Marantz to host the playback software like foobar or JRiver. Unless, of course, Marantz has a server gadget that lets it obey an iPhone app. Marantz would need to create all that stuff. Something like PS Audio's Perfectwave Bridge.

I use a Sonos as music server between my NAS and DAC. It has a small processor and dedicated software for music playback only. It maintains a library database and updates it's software automatically.  It has ethernet in, SPDIF output to my DAC and has an easy to use GUI. It also accesses internet music and can provide whole house audio. I control it with either the Sonos remote, iPod4 or PC. It is much easier to run than a PC server. It has high jitter though, so you DAC must be able to reclock or remove jitter in some way. Empirical Audio makes a jitter free Sonos mod.

A PC does provide the power to do more, potentially a LOT more, if you are open to DSP. But it is not necessary just to stream music.

[wilsynet]

A Sonos would likely be your best bet.  Which is too bad, because you've already spent good money on the Marantz.  Still, that's what Audiogon is for.

The Marantz just isn't very capable.

I use a Mac Mini and iTunes Remote on my iPhone and iPad.  Computer based is the most powerful and flexible.  I wouldn't call Sonos a computer, but yes, there's a computer in it, but you know, technically, modern microwave ovens and televisions have computers in them too.

Having said that, I think Sonos has all of the no fuss convenience that comes from a purpose built solution and none of the inconvenient downsides of a generic computer based (Windows, Mac) system.

[jtwrace]

What format should the drives be in a NAS for Windows & Mac access?  FAT32?

[richidoo]

What format should the drives be in a NAS for Windows & Mac access?  FAT32?

Being a fileserver, a NAS isolates the file system of the HDD from the client. It just delivers the file on request. So you can use whatever filesystem that works best with the NAS OS. Since the NAS will probably do the formatting, you may not have a choice.

[magister]

Getting back to the original topic:

My highest priority is audio quality.  If I add a computer into the mix, it seems that I would be likely to get lesser quality than by feeding the NA7004 as directly as possible.  The playback software, Windows or Mac drivers, cables, and more -- all would make a differnce.  I realize that the quality I get now is dependent on the DAC built into the Marantz.  It seems pretty good, certainly better than the one in my older SACD player.  I would really appreciate comments about this quality issue.  Maybe I could even get better sound, but there are lots of variables.

My other reason for avoiding a computer is physical space.  There is no good spot in the room for a computer, even a laptop.  I have thought of a Mac mini, as wilsynet mentioned; that would fit on my audio rack and could be controlled from my iPad via VNC (no need for monitor or keyboard after initial setup).  I would like some answers to my quality question before I go this route.

Marantz makes a bluetooth adapter that lets you stream music from the iPad.  Of course I can't store hi-res files on the iPad (at least not very many!) and I don't think wi-fi is the best for audio quality.

Thanks - David

[geofstro]

David, in your first post you said:

The Marantz is not connected to my home network (no wiring in the listening room)

How are you planning to connect a NAS to the Marantz player?

The idea of a NAS is to have it tucked out of the way somewhere and connected to your network. If you don't want to run Ethernet cable to your living room, you could look at the home networking solutions that allow you to use your mains system for Ethernet.

If you want to avoid a computer, I understand there is an upgrade that allows the Marantz to support Airplay. You could set up you NAS to serve music to an iPad, then onward stream it wirelessly to the Marantz. There could be jitter issues though.

A computer would allow you to achieve better sound quality because of the number of excellent software players available.

[trackball02]

As far as a NAS, check out Synology. I have a dual drive (3 TB x 2). Compact, energy efficient and quiet.
It was easy to set up, and has good management software and very good reviews.

I am using it as a back up to my Windows 7 Computer running JRiver, which is of course different than what you are looking to do.

However, I'm sure that Synology can be configured to meet your goals.

[rhblum]

It seems that everyone talks about JRiver needing a computer.  Can't it be set up on a computer and then operated from a NAS, like a Netgear, perhaps using an ipad through an AVR?

[geofstro]

J R Media Center is a software player and library manager which, currently, runs on Windows only.

You can set up a Zone within J R which would allow it to stream files from the library on your NAS to an iPad or similar IOS device. The music can then be streamed to any device which supports Airplay (such as the Marantz player, after a free upgrade).  You would want to make sure transcoding is turned off within JR so you get full CD quality. It appears that the JRemote app will only stream MP3 to an iPad, going by it's description (not good). In that case you would need to use PlugPlayer, which I've found to be buggy in the past.

Under this scenario you would need to run J R on the windows machine, connected on the network somewhere. This computer would not have to be connected to the stereo.

This should not be confused with music servers which actually run on the NAS. Most NAS's come with music server software pre-installed, such as an iTunes server. In this case you don't need a PC or Mac.  A better music server for a NAS would be Subsonic. In this case the NAS could be anywhere in the world and Subsonic will serve your music to you wherever you are at full CD quality, as long as you turn off transcoding.

Subsonic can also be used as a music server on a local LAN though.  You could stream the music via Airplay to your stereo using your iPad running iSub.  You would see the artwork in iSub. Liner notes would have to be fetched via a separate app, such as Good Reader. Again, turn off transcoding in iSub if you want full CD Quality.

I have Subsonic running on a Synology NAS. A little tricky to set-up;works very well though.

[magister]

Thanks, trackball and geofstro -- helpful info!

[Vincent Kars]

The Marantz supports DLNA, a protocol for streaming AV.
It will scan the network for DLNA servers.
This can be a PC with Windows Media Sharing enabled or JRiver DLNA or a NAS running a DLNA server like e.g. Twonky Vision.

As the Marantz pulls the audio from the server, server components like soundcards, audio drivers, etc are not used at all.
You can experiment a little by connecting the Marantz to a PC.

If you want to use a NAS most important is a stable DLNA implementation.
Preferably a DLNA certified one.
Check brands like Qnap, Synology, etc.
Most of all check user forums for DLNA problems.