What I learned yesterday about the XR45

dave_c · « **on:** 16 Aug 2004, 05:31 pm »

You can't run the XR45 in party mode while feeding it 24/96 signals.

That really changed my plans to bi-amp my speakers going forward. What's annoying is that the Monarchy upsampler is not switchable between 24/96 and 16/44.1 . If I knew that I wasn't missing out on much then it wouldn't be a big deal, but the uncertainty kills me.

The one good thing is that my speaker cable situation is easier to sort out. AP Bi-Oval 9 or AZ Satori Bi-Wire coming through.

azryan · « **Reply #1 on:** 16 Aug 2004, 05:47 pm »

How many 24/96 discs do you have? Is this really an issue for you? I thought this was a VERY rare format. Basically non-existant.

Maybe I missed it and you want to use an upsampler or something? The Pannie actually has to upsample the CD data to 24 bit to process it through the PowerDACS.

Have you tried not using the party mode? In party mode I found you have to turn the volume up ~6db to hit the same level as when just using normal stereo so if you gain 3db in double power part mode but lose 6db of gain...

It seems messed up. There's probably more to it than that though. I've heard a few diff. things about what's going on in the volume control from -20 to -0 so maybe the 6db loss of volume in party mode doesn't matter.

Anyway... you might consider simple stereo output if you 'need' the 24/96 input.

Wayne1 · « **Reply #2 on:** 16 Aug 2004, 06:02 pm »

Dave.

In our first listening session at Tyson's with an early modded Panny I mentioned that in Party Mode you can't run 24/96 (Jan 19, 2004)

Panasonic listening session

Presonally I do not see the need to upsample, but just about everyone has a different idea of what sounds best to them. I guess you CAN get another SA-XR45 and have it modded and run BOTH of them to bi-amp with 24/96 upsampling

BTW: the SA-XR50 will also work with the same remote as the SA-XR45 and vice/versa.

dave_c · « **Reply #3 on:** 16 Aug 2004, 06:29 pm »

Right now I'm using a Monarchy DIP Upsampler to feed the XR45. Unfortunately, I have no way to defeat the upsampling on the Monarchy to see if there is a difference between the two. I will say that everything sounds great with the upsampling.

I'm using my laptop as a source via a USB adapter. Prior to the DIP upsampler, everything sounded flat and compressed. After the upsampler, there was more dimension and clarity. Then I got everything modded and things are even better.

My only regret is that I wanted to bi-amp my speakers. I've heard of the gain issue, but I don't think it would be an issue for me. My room is very small, so I don't need super high volumes. I just wanted to see if there was more to gain out of my speakers by having each driver on their own amp.

Wayne - what's up with this mod to have one 1 panasonic control the other?

Wayne1 · « **Reply #4 on:** 16 Aug 2004, 06:35 pm »

No mod. You can just take the digital out of one unit and run it to a digital in of a second unit. Set the selector by hand and you can use the same remote to change volume on both units.

dave_c · « **Reply #5 on:** 16 Aug 2004, 06:41 pm »

Cool! Thanks for the tip!

dwk · « **Reply #6 on:** 16 Aug 2004, 06:43 pm »

Thanks for the info Wayne - I've been meaning to try this as the idea of a digital out on a receiver is pretty odd, but when I discovered that all the XR- receivers can share a single remote it seemed like a promising idea. I've had two XR25's and an XR-10 running from the same remote, and for volume it works just fine. Input switching wasn't flawless, but I think it was just because the XR-10 is different.

BTW - on the subject of 'new things about Panny receivers' I discovered today that the XR25 power supply IS actually a variable output supply. Voltage ranges from ~42 down to ~10.5 V and then remains fixed as the volume control is reduced further. This is only ~12dB which seems like a small-ish range to bother with a variable supply. The extra circuitry in the XR45 supply seems like more than just filtering, so now I'm even more confused than I was.....

jonbee · « **Reply #7 on:** 17 Aug 2004, 09:08 pm »

I believe there is an internal jumper to switch the Monarchy into 16/44. Open it up and have a look.

dave_c · « **Reply #8 on:** 17 Aug 2004, 10:30 pm »

The switch actually is just between 24/96 or 24/48. I tried it with no luck.

GUNN · « **Reply #9 on:** 18 Aug 2004, 02:26 pm »

dwk, you've actually daisy chained three of those units together kindas like as if you could tri-amp in 6 channel mode with the digital out feeding in and out from the top to bottom?

dwk · « **Reply #10 on:** 18 Aug 2004, 04:45 pm »

My target application was active tri-amping, so each amp got a separate signal - I didn't use the digital daisy-chaining. I really set it up just to see whether all 3 would track volume together, and it seemed to work pretty well.

dave_c · « **Reply #11 on:** 18 Aug 2004, 05:27 pm »

I'm confused. Do you have a source that can feed three seperate amps the same signal? Or are you using the method described by Wayne where you take the digital output from one and feed it to the nest.

Thanks!

dwk · « **Reply #12 on:** 19 Aug 2004, 08:35 pm »

When doing *active* tri-amping, each amp gets a different signal from an external crossover, so there is no need to 'link' them.

The big problem with active multi-amping particularly when doing it digitally is controlling the volume of all 6 output channels - this is why I was experimenting with using one remote to control all 3 receivers.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #13 on:** 19 Aug 2004, 09:01 pm »

So, you have an electronic Xover with 3 sets of outputs, or am I missing something?

Interested in how this works out, I have a pair of Teac Tripaths, that with the right equipment, could be used for biamping actively. I have tried passively biamping, and was not impressed - not unhappy, but no overwhelmed either.

looking to learn about how it is done!

Mark in Canada

dave_c · « **Reply #14 on:** 19 Aug 2004, 09:10 pm »

Ah! I missed the crossover part. Are you running DEQX or something equivalent? Does it have digital or analog outs? I imagine a digital crossover with addtional adjustments can really adjust for a lot of things if setup properly. Of course it could also sound terrible if not.

Please keep us informed. Sounds cool!

dwk · « **Reply #15 on:** 19 Aug 2004, 09:29 pm »

I'm actually using a PC as my source/DSP box, and using a multichannel studio sound card as my output. I've been using an M-Audio Delta 1010 up to now, which has a single digital out and 8 analog outs, but I'm moving to an Emu 1820M which has (in theory-still not sure that they're all independent) 3 digital outs and 8 analog outs. Unfortunately, it means moving from Linux to Windows, which is going to take a while.

What I'm doing is very similar to what DEQX is doing in that I'm using FIR filters and potentially doing time-domain room correction, but just a lot more work. If I had the bucks for a DEQX, I'd just get one and be done with it.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #16 on:** 20 Aug 2004, 01:23 pm »

Interesting, what s/w are you using, that allows you to trim the frequencies for the individual channels?

Mark

ogp · « **Reply #17 on:** 23 Aug 2004, 01:40 am »

the application I've heard most talk of using in Linux is BruteFIR
never actually used it myself though....