[jarcher]

At the risk of repeating hifitommy & sounding like a broken record - pun intended - there's a lot of great used vinyl, particularly for classical, available at $1 or less.  Sometimes you gotta throw out the garbage disks that are too worn, scratched, dirty to salvage, but sometimes you get new in box sets for less than $1 a record.  Even an amazon / itunes can't beat that price.

In case anyone is interested, the new VPI Traveller I got is very good for the money - the photos don't do it justice as it a very solid 25+ pound unit that feels like a quality product before you even listen.  Supposedly there's gonna be a review in Stereophile in November, and as they never give a bad review, expect potential shortages & prices hikes, so get yours now! I asked Harry of VPI himself at a recent show about it vs the Scout prior entry level product & he said somewhat cryptically "in the long run you'll be happier w/ the traveller".  I think the heavier platter really makes the difference.


The Grado Gold that comes stock w/ the traveller & Harry said he designed the table in mind w/ that cartridge, can do some sonic holography magic, but ultimately for us who are more into the dynamics / slam of R&R and even large orchestral pieces, the Grado gold is just to slow, mellow, and warm.  The Ortofon 2M Red has definitely got more detail than the Sumiko Pearl, but the Pearl has deeper bass that is almost as tight.  Guess that's why it's a favorite budget R&R cartridge. 

The traveller deserves a better cartridge, just need to keep auditioning more to see what's the best bang for the buck.  Ortofon 2M Blue, here I come.

[Andre2]

I have hooked up an iMac through an eastern electric dec plus to my system today.  And let me tell you all, the convenience having mac as a music server, with the ability of listening to music samples at amazon, pandora, high definition music from HD tracks, makes this is an unbelievable deal. 

So, OP, you can buy a mac for about the same amount of money and have a wonderful system with a ee dac, or an emotive dec. This is my recommendation.

[brooklyn]

If you've got a stack of vinyl lying around and you want to play and enjoy it again, I would say go for it. If you are doing this to test whether you have the mettle to invest bigger into vinyl to get the best from the medium, then I doubt that you will figure that out with these pieces.

Vinyl is not convenient. It is possible to get amazing sound, but it does take a considerable investment in time, money, & experience. If you are a convenience lover then this is probably not the best choice. If you are a hobbiest and like to tinker and learn new things then go for it.

I think this statement some's it up the best..

[SteveFord]

Right now I'm playing a Dave Mason album that I got for the princely sum of 25 cents.
A trip through the RCM and it sounds really good. 
The Dan Fogelberg for a quarter was warped - I suppose I should ask for a refund but I guess I'll let it slide this time as it sounded unplayed.

[jarcher]

After spending some more time with my new vinyl rig, I'd also echo the "vinyl is not convenient - can get amazing sound - considerably investment in time, money, and experience".  For the former - can't count the hours futzing w/ the cartridge / tonearm set up, etc.  Also found that I had to invest in a decent record cleaner as well.  To be honest, between table, cartridge, phone preamp, interconnects, record cleaning machine, etc, etc, if your not willing to make a $1,500+ investment (and a lot of fussing about), it's probably not worth it.  On the other hand, once you have taken the leap, you can start to make that investment back in really cheap used albums - assuming they are in decent enough shape to be worth playing.  Another "learning lesson" - scratches aside, records are perishable in other ways, and you can't play them over & over indefinitely.  Something you don't even think about with digital.

[hifitommy]

steve,

one alternative for warps is the periphery ring.  you already have the tt, so for its 380 dollar cost, you can reap some of the benefit of a vacuum hold down platter.  TTWeights has these items and also a fairly lightweight CLAMP (not a weight) for about 85-99 bx. the higher priced one for 99 is lighter and to me, better.

you may already be set with a clamp but the periphery riing will rescue many warped discs like the one you mentioned that sounded unplayed.

archie,

one of the benefits of having a LOT of LPs is that each gets played fewer times.  why get bored of your very favorites?  i ruined listening to the ventures' "walk don't run" album when it was released by playing it over and over.  DECADES later i got a CD of the music and can listen to it now.

i just returned from the the LA audio society that helps put on T.H.E.Show in Newport with a new reissue copy of the 'cal tjader latin concert' LP  ($15) and a gratis ernie andrews-sings from the heart.  that will go on the tt soon and i have NUMEROUS other 'new to me' pieces of vinyl to play as well.  the pickin's are great here in LALA Land.

all the experience with the 'futzing around' with the arm and cart alignment is more than valuable.  its a ticket to pleasure of a hands on hobby.

[jarcher]

I'm consistently amazed at what a difference even small VTA adjustments can have on the sound. 

Ended up getting a killer deal on an Ortofon Rondo Bronze (half off), so the 2M Red & Grado Gold went back.  Now just need to sell on the Sumiko Pearl.  Got a feeling the Rondo will be all I ever need until it wears out.

[hifitommy]

one of the members of the LAOCAudio Society is David Shreve, modifier of rabco SL8E tonearms.  he is a strong proponent of the need for proper VTA (even for different pressing types that can be related to the label in question). 
if you google his name, there will be plenty of info on him.

a fine line stylus like that found on the rondo requires a bit more attention to that detail than most ellipticals and especially a conical stylus.  for most of us though, once a good vta is found on common LPs, changing for each is perhaps more than we are willing to go for.

[jarcher]

for most of us though, once a good vta is found on common LPs, changing for each is perhaps more than we are willing to go for.

Amen to that.....if I started changing VTA for every album, I would need to be taken out & shot out of my misery.

[jimdgoulding]

What Hifi Tommy says

[SteveFord]

Can a periphery ring be used on a Well Tempered Classic?   
 
I just put in new tubes in the Jolida JD9 (more JJ Tesla ECC803S') and listened to a little bit of Exile On Main Street.
Vinyl has many drawbacks but the sound quality makes it all worthwhile.

[hifitommy]

as far as a periphery ring goes, i would suggest contacting TTWeights for info.  they will likely know what works.

[doug s.]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but you might need to go a bit further upscale with the analog equipment to better your digital set up.  Buying used will help stretch your dollars quite a bit.
Once you reach a certain level , though, the sound quality of vinyl can be very addictive.

you're wrong.  there, now you have been corrected.   

seriously, a total investment of $1k-$1.5k, (if you buy used), will get you better sound than you will get at any price w/redbook, imo.  (i can't comment on hi-rez, as i don't have any experience.)  your $1k-$1.5k needs to be divided up between turntable/arm/phono stage/cartridge, but it can still be done... 

others may disagree w/me, but w/digital, there is simply something missing.  don't get me wrong, i can enjoy redbook a lot, but it does not compare to winyl; not to my ears anyway...

ymmv,

doug s.

[doug s.]

...Another "learning lesson" - scratches aside, records are perishable in other ways, and you can't play them over & over indefinitely.  Something you don't even think about with digital...

not sure about this - i have many records 30-40 years old, that got played to death, and they still sound great today...  i doubt i will still be around when they no longer sound good...

doug s.

[jarcher]

not sure about this - i have many records 30-40 years old, that got played to death, and they still sound great today...  i doubt i will still be around when they no longer sound good...

doug s.

I stand corrected!  Good to know.  I've not had the pleasure of playing one LP to death yet.......but assumed some of bad sound I've gotten from some bargin bin's has been due to overplaying.  Perhaps instead they were just damaged by badly set up cartridges.....?

Did invest in a VPI record cleaning machine & this seems almost a must for all but the most casual / occasional record listening.

[SteveFord]

No denying a good RCM is a must and that's what I was saying, figure one to two grand for a (used) turntable, phono stage and cartridge and with a little patience and luck you can put together something that sounds spectacular.
If you're lucky, you can put together a good digital system for under $100 although $300 is probably a bit more realistic.

[doug s.]

agreed w/steve that is is not worth it to inwest more than a few hundred dollars on a redbook set up - there yust isn't that much there that makes it worth it, imo.  you can only suck so much blood from a stone...

it is possible that records can be damaged by abuse - improper handling, poor cartridge set up, not being cleaned, etc.  re: cleaning records, i have always had good results simply washing my records by hand, and using a "dust bug" or similar, while the records are actually in play.  these dewices do a good job of keeping the record (and needle) clean during play.  the item shown is a wintage keith monks record sweeper, w/squirrel hair brush with fine copper wires in it that are grounded through the metal arm to the base which has an earth connection to remove static...

bird feathers can work too!   




doug s.