[guf]

Not sure If its proper to ask this here in the Salk forum but you people are the ones that influence (or brainwash) me the most. Also I respect your opinions.

Since purchasing the HT2-TLs a few weeks ago I've had some of the best listening experiences of my life. Of course I'm obsessing to make it better. All my music comes from one source, flacs from my mac mini. I've been using a audioengine d1 dac, sounds wonderful. but reading and obsessing there is something better than a 160$ portable dac. I just happen to order a ODAC from the same people that bring you the O2 amp. (head phone stuff). 99$ and I had to solder the audio out jack to the board. Plugged it in and it sounds amazing. There must be something better that a pseudo diy Open source 99$ DAC. I just happen to get a "real" DAC the same day, A W4S dac 2. I bought it locally and used. This one is not inexpensive.
All morning i have been testing and obsessing( instead doing what i have to do.) All 3 are plugged in usb. The W4S can be used as a stand alone unit so I am, to separate it from the av receiver that the others are plugged into. Listening to songs over and over with all 3, trying to figure out which is best. To be honest the most expensive one is NOT 10X better than the more inexpensive ones. I'm not really having buyers remorse because I love researching, I love gear, I love change, but Is there something wrong with me? Is there there something wrong with my set up? like the lack of room treatments? Do my ears need to be trained to hear better sound? It's hard to articulate what I'm hearing. I do here slight differences. Slight. Or I think I do.

One good thing is I'm listening to a ton of music. thanks
guf

[funkmonkey]

I don't think you are alone in your observations, but undoubtedly those that have spent mega bucks on their DAC will say that it sounds better, when different is really the correct word to use...  I haven't plunged into the outboard DAC world yet, still enjoying my Modwright Transporter/36.5 set-up...  Thought about picking up a D1, also considered the W4S DAC2...  curious to see what else you find.

Thanks for keeping it real and posting your candid thoughts.

Cheers

[Big Red Machine]

Alot of inexpensive dacs are very good these days.  Much has improved and continues to in dac technology and execution almost on a daily basis.  Is the Wyred dac the best, but not 10x, and only 2x better?  This could be the case and perhaps your other gear is holding it back (or holding all the dacs back). 

Many times folks are content with a $99 dac and an equal number of times we find that a more expensive dac with "better" parts, design, etc. is what we need.  The Wyred is pretty highly regarded so perhaps the way you have set it up as a standalone is an apples to oranges comparison to the other dacs (or in this setup something is incompatible).  Perhaps you could use it as a dac only against the best of the $99 dacs and see what you get? 

Maybe describe your connection scheme a little more and more advice will flow in.

We all have to decide how far down this curve we dare go:

[Miney]

An interesting compilation here; sourced from the List of DACs "Under $450" thread stickied in the Cheap and Cheerful HiFi circle.

Notwithstanding the thread title, nearly half of the 182 listed cost over $450.  If nothing else, it further demonstrates the challenge in finding, and remaining convinced, that you've found the best solution. 

Also nicely complements BRM's chart... 

[funkmonkey]

That chart is right on BRM!    funny, and very true.

[srb]

As far as components that people repeatedly buy and sell in search of the Holy Grail, DACs seem to be at the top the list.

Steve

[K Shep]

Is there there something wrong with my set up?

Does your system double as tv watching and music listening.  The reason I ask is the use of a receiver.  I would consider looking at seperates as your next best step in putting together 2 channel system, of course there is always ones budget to consider.  More information would be helpful, as stated earlier, for members to provide advice.

[guf]

Thanks for the thoughts and replies.
The set up goes like this, yes it's connected to my av receiver, an Integra dtr8.4. Powering the front 2 HT2-TLs is a parasound 2250. Only source is Mac mini. All 3 DACs connected with usb: The W4S DAC2 (also can be used as a preamp), audioengine D1, and ODAC into video 1,2,3 rcas in stand alone DAC mode. Seems like a fair even test. The differences were slight. I do believe the W4S was the more detailed one but not sure how else my untrained ears and brain would articulate the differences. If I did the blind test a,b,c I'm not sure if I could pick out the best one. It's hard.  I dont get out there and hear a lot of different sets ups. I'm sure in my circle of friends my system is the best. But also my friends can not understand spending the kind of money we spend to get to this level. The speakers are definitely the meat and potatoes of the system.
So where is gets interesting is the W4S can and is now being used as a DAC and preamp. So it is being used "separate"ly. The AV receiver is off.  I figured removing the av from the system, as most people suggest, would really take it to the next level. And frankly it doesn't seem THAT different. I'm not complaining. I am very happy I purchased it. I think it sounds amazing. Is the W4S dac/pre combo a legit pre amp? If I only have one source seems like a great option just use it. I wonder if getting another hybrid pre or ss pre would really affect the sound? Maybe I could get an all tube pre ( and use the W4S as just a DAC) to add variety and give options for a different sound? Also I thought thought about a hybrid tube amp?  I'm leaning towards the Van Alstine line because because if you are reading this we are in the same circle, and our circle strongly over laps with their circle. I'm sure there is other great options but at this level everything is really good. There is just different.

[srb]

Are you using iTunes as your music player or one of the "better sounding" (according to the majority users who have compared) iTunes playback engine software add-ons such as Pure Music, Amarra or Audirvana?

Steve

[eclein]

First I'll start with a quote from your 1st post-"Since purchasing the HT2-TLs a few weeks ago I've had some of the best listening experiences of my life". ......and they are not probably fully broken in yet which is something to consider, seriously.

 I did the DAC thing my first time with a receiver and then bought an integrated amp with the same DAC and the difference was extreme, sounded many, many times better. Then that amp broke in and I changed it around, turned it into str8 amp, and used the pre-amp feature of my same DAC- again a huge positive change.

 Then I tried various tubes in my Tube DAC and heard that I could shape the sound a bit, really started to dial in what I liked in my presentation of various media.

 The point is there are a ton of variables to discover, play with, investigate but your first sentence in op was "Since purchasing the HT2-TL's ........best listening experiences of my life". I'd enjoy playing around with the DAC's, pick my fav so far in another week or so then you can send other 2 back if possible or whatever is best for your financial situation with them.  Enjoy the new sound for awhile, then maybe think about each subsequent purchase option in terms of "what" options that piece gives you as well as sound enhancement hopefully-it really comes down to synergy and LUCK!! I think anyway.

[guf]

Are you using iTunes as your music player or one of the "better sounding" (according to the majority users who have compared) iTunes playback engine software add-ons such as Pure Music, Amarra or Audirvana?

Steve

I'm using decible. I like it a lot.

 

 The point is there are a ton of variables to discover, play with, investigate but your first sentence in op was "Since purchasing the HT2-TL's ........best listening experiences of my life". I'd enjoy playing around with the DAC's, pick my fav so far in another week or so then you can send other 2 back if possible or whatever is best for your financial situation with them.  Enjoy the new sound for awhile, then maybe think about each subsequent purchase option in terms of "what" options that piece gives you as well as sound enhancement hopefully-it really comes down to synergy and LUCK!! I think anyway.

thanks for the advice e..... I am enjoying for sure 

[saisunil]

It does seem like your amp/receiver may be holding the system back ...

Here are a couple ways to consider:
1. "I am really happy with my system with my receiver and cheaper dac - I do not need to make a change"
2. "Hmmm ... seems like my receiver is holding back my system - I need to upgrade to a nice integrated amp - perhaps a tube integrated ... that would allow the system to resolve better and let me appreciate higher end DACs more"

The used market is flooded with good integrated amps. I think it is easier to get good sound out of a tube integrated amp  compared to a Solid State for the same price ...

Analog Amp technology does not change as quickly as the digital source ... so I would recommend pick up an older / used tube amp and new / latest DAC at a max price you are willing to pay ...

Good Luck

[squirrel_nut]

i think saisunil is exactly right.  the best AV reciever i have any experience with is pioneer elite.  it sounds nice until you compare it to even entry level separates... like adcom or NAD.  the depth and resolution just isnt there.  better components should allow you to hear distinct differences between the W4S and the other 2 DACs.  for a cheap AV solution i highly recommend used Proceed, EAD or Arcam pre-pros.  the EAD and Proceed are both know for their fantastic analog/2ch sound... and if want to surround, your covered as well.  i have an EAD and prefer the on board DAC over my oppo's latest-greatest Sabre.

[guf]

It does seem like your amp/receiver may be holding the system back ...

Here are a couple ways to consider:
1. "I am really happy with my system with my receiver and cheaper dac - I do not need to make a change"
2. "Hmmm ... seems like my receiver is holding back my system - I need to upgrade to a nice integrated amp - perhaps a tube integrated ... that would allow the system to resolve better and let me appreciate higher end DACs more"

The used market is flooded with good integrated amps. I think it is easier to get good sound out of a tube integrated amp  compared to a Solid State for the same price ...

Analog Amp technology does not change as quickly as the digital source ... so I would recommend pick up an older / used tube amp and new / latest DAC at a max price you are willing to pay ...

Good Luck

I guess I'm a little confused. My av receiver is not in the 2 channel set up, I can have  the power off and still play music thru the dac/pre that is connected to the amp.  Not sure how it would be the weak link in the system. But I suggested that the lack of a separate preamplifier maybe holding me back. Now the suggestion of an integrated tube amplifier is a new thought. Could/would that benefit more than a separate preamp? I guess I never considered a integrated system because it seems everyone suggested going the preamplifier and separate amps.
thanks for the ideas!

[saisunil]

Receivers are "All in ones" - for a given price they do a lot of functions. An integrated amp does only a couple of functions. The idea being - a $1000 integrated amp is likely to be a better sounding amp than a $1000 receiver ... as far as separates are concerned - I think for low budget one is better off with a good quality integrated amp (which is nothing but a pre-amp and an amp put together in one box or in most cases just an amp with a passive volume control) instead of budget separates.

This is a slippery road - that most in this forum have traveled and continue to travel without an end ... 

So, if you are happy - call it a day - ignorance is bliss - it truly is ... as you are listening more to music now and down the road it is easier to listen more to gear ...