[eclein]

A few months back "avnerdguy" hooked me up with a refreshed TT and recently sent me an old receiver he had with a phono pre in it. Before this I was using a little black box thing like from Radioshack.

 Needless to say it all sounded OK then got much better with the nicer electronics. I have been using interconnects of questionable quality, LOL, and Saturday I put a nice Wywires cable between the pre-amp and the phono pre and my god the sound is now just fantastic. I listened to every single LP you wonderful folks were kind enough to send me to start a collection and I'm so surprised at the sound. Cables make a huge difference with Turntables and associated electronics than I thought. Do you guys use super special cables from stem to stern with your stuff??

 I guess you could customize every inch from cart to amp couldn't you? This has made me rethink going forward with things. I think I've boarded the bus on the analog highway. The dynamics, the sounds were so realistic.....easily more enjoyable then my CD player or Squeezebox setup...I love it.....Thanks Dean and Bill, and all the folks that were kind enough to send me some vinyl. Whats the most important or better yet what cable position in the chain has the biggest effect on the sound??

[roscoeiii]

Yeah, I find that cables are particularly important for turntable to phono pre connections due to the low level of those signals. While some have good luck with unshielded cables here, I have not. In my system (and EMI/RFI heavy city apartment), none of the unshielded cables I tried worked well (these were some Morrow cables and the Mapleshade ribbons). I had been using a Straightwire Encore II for a while before upgrading to a Zu Xaus. Boy did I like the improvement the Xaus gave me. A change in table & tonearm led me to sell the Zu recently (my RB301 has the cable built onto it). Here's hoping mick wolfe enjoys the Zu as much as I did.

[Letitroll98]

Another vote for Zu Xaus here.  I've tried a bunch of cables over the years and nothing came close.  With that being said, I'm sure there are many other products as good or better, the Zu is a well engineered solution that has been the best so far for me.  For example, I didn't try any of Alex's phono cables, but did compare Wywires interconnects with Zu Wylde, which is very close in design to the Xaus, and the WyWires bested the Zu cables in many categories.

Not to start any debates or flame wars, but I quite easily hear differences in interconnects.  I've heard several theories that say this has to do with poorly designed consumer products with lousy ground plates letting hash run through the signal carrier.  And if products were designed better it would eliminate cable differences.  I'm fine with that, or anything similar as explanation.  But as it stands today, there are differences.  So I have mixed and matched various cables from Zu, Magnan, and Tuan's homemade cables throughout.

Interconnects make the biggest difference for me.  Other things besides cables affect turntables and cartridges more as they are transducers and mechanical devices.  I hear only subtle differences in well designed speaker cables.  I hear big differences between OEM power cords and aftermarket ones, only subtle differences between various aftermarket power cords.  I've been told this is because of the better connectors and you can get mostly there by cutting off the connectors on your OEM power cords and replacing them with better ones, haven't got round to trying that yet. 

Enjoy Ed, and keep experimenting, LP's are a tinker's heaven.

[bside123]

And... another vote here for... Zu XAUS.

After trying several other wires for phono interconnects, I settled for Zu believing they've been the best bang for my buck between turntable and phono pre. I don't believe that they're being manufactured any longer, and they seem hard to find on the pre-owned market. Zu replaced them with a version of their Mission ICs for phono. They're good too, and I own them as well. In my experience, it's really hard to go wrong with the XAUS. Sound good & affordable.

[werd]

To the OP. Any cable related to the reproduction or source component of the music. A lot less with amplification. Although there is good reason for speaker cable to not go un noticed. Although i think the biggest concern is length of speaker cable than anything else.

Source cabling can affect the vibes, air around instruments, and just the all around  instrument integrity to live. Amplification including speaker cables just moves you closer to a more active speaker sound(response)with out screwing up noise and transient power concerns. This is how i conduct my own cable strategy... ymmv

[eclein]

I'm like all afternoon fiddlin...LOL...I sent email to Alex in the hopes he may have something laying around maybe he'd offer up to try. He was telling me for months how I had to try vinyl, gotta do it!! My setup works fine and its very much a mix and match thing as far as the electronics so I'm like starting from scratch.

You guys with nice stuff, no wonder you guys go nuts over this.....I'm already thinking "what table next"....LOL...I used to tweak the crap out of my old Dual-forget the number but real popular in 75-77'. I forget every concept about whats going on so for awhile I'll just be calling Bill aka pumpkinman and asking him to swing by and adjust stuff. I guess I'll just screw around and see where my mind takes me on the next move....fun, fun!!!

[Photon46]

I find varying degrees of audible differences between cables depending on the component. My Aloia amp and preamp have massive power supplies and whatever mojo signori Aloia worked on their design has rendered them only modestly influenced by power cables. So, I just use rather inexpensive Cryo-Parts or Harmonic Technology ac cords on them. Other amps I've had have shown much more benefit from upgrading power cords. The most expensive power cord I use is a DH Labs Red Wave, it feeds the PS Audio P300 which powers my sources. In my experience, cd players tend to show the effects of better cords. I use a Mojo Audio ribbon power cord on my Arcam cd37 to good effect, an easily heard upgrade over the stock cord or something like the Cryo_Parts. As much as I'd hoped I wouldn't hear too much difference between the "sensibly priced" Signal Cable Silver Resolution interconnects and the Luminous Audio Synchestra References I tried, the increase in resolution was so obvious I was hooked within 15 minutes. I've replaced all interconnects with Luminous Synchestras now with the exception of the link between phono stage and preamp. I'm using a DH Labs Revelation there and it equals the Luminous. Not sure if is $300 better though. To this point, I also have found speaker cables to provide the least performance increases as cable prices rise. I've sold several sets of $1k speaker cables and settled on DH Labs Q10. It's an excellent performer for a low price. I found a good price on a set of cables I've wanted to try, so there is a set of Luminous Synchestra Reference speaker cables on their way to me. The recent addition of a set of Tidal Piano Ceras should easily resolve any increase in performance, it it's there. I don't doubt those who hear more noticeable differences in speaker cables. I suspect it's that different speaker/amp interfaces vary in their audibility of cable parameter changes. When I had my AudioMods tonearm built, I had the option of using Mike's continuous silver Litz cable with no connector in the signal path or having the usual DIN connector that allowed whatever cable one wants. Thinking that the additional connector was more likely to cause degradation of a moving coil signal than a fancy cable was likely to help it, I went with a continuous loom.

 

[Wayner]

Because cartridges (MM) put out such low voltages, like .005 volts, the signal is very vulnerable to several factors such as capacitance and shielding. Higher capacitance cables will start to act as a frequency filter, while poorly shielded cables will allow stray emf/rf to get into the picture.
Moral of the story for turntables is to use quality shielded cables, short as possible.

Wayner

[neobop]

Interesting thread. Seems like there's some agreement that the closer to the source, the greater the difference.  With tonearm cables there are other considerations - electrical properties of the cables. Capacitance loads a high output cart and I've seen low inductance cables for low output carts.  Haven't seen too much written about low inductance tonearm cables for MCs.

In general, the shorter the better principal for tonearm cables rules. But I read an article by a tech that said that the idea of no junction from cart to pre, was pointless. It always seemed to me that it was a pretty good idea. Any hard info on this?

[vinyl_guy]

Ed,

really glad to hear you are enjoying your ventures into vinyl land. I use a Cardas Golden Reference phono cable and it is a great cable--letsw all the music in the grooves flow into the phono stage. I'm a big believer in the difference high quality cables make in your system. My ears tell me they do a better job of getting out of the way and allowing more music to flow to your speakers. Some of the biggest differences I have heard have been on the power cable side. I have upgraded all of my power cables and added a UberBUSS and a PS Audio power regenerator. Combined, they really lowered the noise floor to dead quiet and allowed all of my gear to operate at its full potential. Interconnects make a difference too, IMO.

Enjoy!

Laura

[cheap-Jack]

Hi.

Some of the biggest differences I have heard have been on the power cable side. I have upgraded all of my power cables.
Interconnects make a difference too, IMO.

Laura

Power cords can affect sound like audio ICs.

I tested 3 types of 3-wire power cords. One was off-the-shelf standard SJT type, One I DIYed using a thick thick brandname audiophile grade power cable (large gauge OFHC copper conductors, overall tape shielded, vibration resistance). One I DIYed using 99.99% pure solid silver wires (AWG#12) of German origin. No shield.

Guess which cord sounded better? The 4N pure silver cord.

I am now using it for my 35W+35W tube power amp for many years now.

You may ask why? Pure silver is the metal of best electrical conductivity, best thermal conductivity & lowest contact resistance, on this planet.
This is physics.

Needless to say, one got to have good ears to hear the difference.

c-J

[chester_audio]

Welcome to analog living, eclein! It's a wonderful, beautiful, rewarding thing. Unfortunately, though. Everything matters with vinyl as you've probably heard and are now discovering for yourself. Where it sits, what it sits on, what it's connected to and with what, etc. Plenty to obsess over. I can't live without it.
   

[S Clark]

Needless to say, one got to have good ears to hear the difference.
c-J

Not really.  My ears are possibly the worst on AC between tinnitus and high frequency loss, and differences in power cords and IC are easily heard.  I suspect that the most important factor is a decently resolving system. 

[cheap-Jack]

Hi.

Not really.  My ears are possibly the worst on AC between tinnitus and high frequency loss, and differences in power cords and IC are easily heard.  I suspect that the most important factor is a decently resolving system.

Right, I can't disagree with you.

A HD (high definition) system is a must to be appreciated by a pair of good ears.

c-J

[ptmconsulting]

Congrats on your new cables, and congrats on managing to keep the nay-sayers away (from this first page, at least). They must be wringing their hands, just dying to type something negative.

Cheap-Jack, I agree that the differences I hear in power cords can sometimes eclipse any difference I hear in reasonable decent interconnects and speaker cables. Truly astonishing changes in one component, but sometimes no/minimal difference in another using the same PC's for comparison. No rational explaination for it, but there you go.

[roscoeiii]

Cheap-Jack, I agree that the differences I hear in power cords can sometimes eclipse any difference I hear in reasonable decent interconnects and speaker cables. Truly astonishing changes in one component, but sometimes no/minimal difference in another using the same PC's for comparison. No rational explaination for it, but there you go.

One possible rational explanation is that some components do a better job of conditioning and cleaning up power in their internal power supplies. Not that I have the technical knowledge to hazard a guess of how they do that, but it seems a plausible explanation. That could explain the difference from say one amp to another amp.

Then there are the differences that may be due to the type of component (amp vs. CD player etc), where factors downstream of the power supply come into play. I imagine the same would apply for SS vs tube.

[TheChairGuy]

Because cartridges (MM) put out such low voltages, like .005 volts, the signal is very vulnerable to several factors such as capacitance and shielding. Higher capacitance cables will start to act as a frequency filter, while poorly shielded cables will allow stray emf/rf to get into the picture.
Moral of the story for turntables is to use quality shielded cables, short as possible.

Wayner

Yup - with only a laymen's knowledge of this, I found the same.

Unshielded seems perfectly ok with line level components, but despite trying unshielded in 3 different houses now, the noise was too great to enjoy vinyl with anything but shielded there. 

I've tried those Power Wrap thingee's around the unshielded cable (supposed to absorb the RF) and it didn't work.  I also tried some $200 per piece ZSleeve Ultra1 (which are multiple layers of copper foil and ERS Clothe) and that didn't work, either.

I use Monster Cable IC's...$59 at Best Buy.  The VPI Classic sounds fine with it and I have tinkered past that with IC's.

[BobRex]

You guys with nice stuff, no wonder you guys go nuts over this.....I'm already thinking "what table next"....LOL...I used to tweak the crap out of my old Dual-forget the number but real popular in 75-77'. I forget every concept about whats going on so for awhile I'll just be calling Bill aka pumpkinman and asking him to swing by and adjust stuff. I guess I'll just screw around and see where my mind takes me on the next move....fun, fun!!!

Ed,

Let me know if you want some help setting up the table.  I'm in Schnecksville (a lot closer than Pumpkin), work not too far from you (LVHN @17th St), and used to set up tables professionally.

Send me a PM is you want some help.

Bob

[Letitroll98]

Because cartridges (MM) put out such low voltages, like .005 volts, the signal is very vulnerable to several factors such as capacitance and shielding. Higher capacitance cables will start to act as a frequency filter, while poorly shielded cables will allow stray emf/rf to get into the picture.
Moral of the story for turntables is to use quality shielded cables, short as possible.

Wayner

Thanks Wayne, I got off on tangents and forgot to mention the basics.  You're right, I wouldn't consider a non-shielded cable and always check the capacitance on phono cables.