[kbuzz3]

Hello All

After some thought id like to add a TT to my system, which for phono amplification would be the phono sections on my fischer 400C, sherwood 5000 and/or pilot 216a

Like many of you i had a few tables is the long distance past, including a few of the uber popular technics direct drives. My standard for years was a AR with Grace F9e. I never loved that table due to isolation issues among other things. Anyway, i am now looking to get a another table new or vintage and would appreciate recommendations. I am aware of the sonic tradeoffs for auto lift but for this set up convenience is what matters most.

The two major requirements are

(1) it has an auto-lift (semi automatic) or have one of the old after market lifters installed.

(2) it is tweak free as possible as time, children and coordination restraints precludes DIY or tweaking, vta, alignment etc.

So after reviewing some of the boards, it seems the a restored dual CS5000 or new denon 300, non -DJused technics get most of the suggestions in prior posts.

Can anyone add to this short list. I see some good and bad regarding vintage thorens but nothing really great about the current dual/thorens line up.  Of course any comments or other suggestions would be appreciated.

[doug s.]

empire.  some w/original arms had a magnetic lift dewice built-in.  if you mount an aftermarket arm, get a thorens q-up or audio technica safety raiser...  can't beat a well set up empire for simplicity, (especially the earlier non-suspended iterations), or sonics, for anywhere near the price, imo...

doug s.

[Elizabeth]

Denon tables with an "L" in the name. Like Denon Dp- 59L
Has auto setdown, lift at end of play, and turn off.
So does my Dual Golden One.
The Dual Golden One was the top of the line Dual. Similar to the CS500 and CS7000, but some upgrades.
The only issue I have with mine is the platter plating has tarnished. (obviously it is not real gold plating)
I have a Dynavector Ruby23 on it.
One nice thing about the Golden One is the arm is great with a MC cartridge.
Most self lift and off table need a MM type cart only.

I have been flopping back and forth over  selling mine. As I also have a Rega P5 with Benz Glider, and a Kuzma Stabi with Stogi S arm/Dynavector 17D3
So I do not need the Dual.
I would sell the Dual with the Dynavector Ruby23 (worth a few hundred all by itself) for $450 plus shipping.
I paid that much for it with no cart a few years ago.
Plenty of modern TTs are in the ballpark, and only someone who wanted a lift at end TT would it be a great TT to have.
The Dual has belt drive, sprung platter. I cannot post a pic with my browser. Google Dual Golden one to see a pic.
PS I have an aftermarket record clamp not the stock one, but in brass, which looks very similar to the stock one..
Good dustcover. It has RCA out on rear, and detachable cord.
I do not know if it is OK to post this offer. If not the mods can delete it no problem.

Added after several posts below: The Dynavector Ruby 23 is a rather low output moving coil. In fact one of the lowest output around!
I have never had any problems using it with my Audio research PH-2 phono box, which is not particularly high gain, via Bryston preamp.

[neobop]

Are those preamps for high output carts only, or can they accommodate a LOMC?

Something to keep in mind is an appropriate arm/cart combo. That offer by Elizabeth seems like a pretty sweet deal if you can run a LOMC. I think you should consider the complete package including your cart preference.

Some older tables with only auto-lift won't have all the junk attached to the bottom of the arm for auto-return. I wouldn't make that #1 priority though. I like the old Kenwood direct drives, but if you want to run a higher compliance MM, maybe a Denon or JVC with a low mass arm would be better.

[doug s.]

Are those preamps for high output carts only, or can they accommodate a LOMC?

Something to keep in mind is an appropriate arm/cart combo. That offer by Elizabeth seems like a pretty sweet deal if you can run a LOMC. I think you should consider the complete package including your cart preference.

Some older tables with only auto-lift won't have all the junk attached to the bottom of the arm for auto-return. I wouldn't make that #1 priority though. I like the old Kenwood direct drives, but if you want to run a higher compliance MM, maybe a Denon or JVC with a low mass arm would be better.

the fischer 400C, sherwood 5000 and/or pilot 216a that the o.p. mentions would require a step-up between a lomc and the phono input of these units.  but it could certainly be done.  i wouldn't let the need of a step-up get in the way of a lomc w/the wintage gear.

but, unless you really wanna yust get something to play and don't care about the ultimate fidelity, i would pass on liz's deal, even tho the price is reasonable enough.  why?  well, i have never been too enamoured of the duals.  and, here's an interesting thread where most folks say they are close to the rega's but not quite there. 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/223793/rega-p3-and-dual-cs-5000

since the empires are much better than the rega's, imo, that would end any interest for me in pursuing the dual.

ymmv,

doug s.

[kbuzz3]

Thanks everyone for the reply posts.  Neobop-you are right, i was not thinking about cartridge combinations.  I do not know the exact specs on the vintage pieces but im pretty sure that most vintage tube phono sections have sufficient gain for moving magnet cartridges only. My guess, is that i would need a MMs of 4 mv or higher

I pretty sure most high output moving coil cartridges are in the under 3 mv range

If anyone can confirm this it would be appreciated.  Ill google the empires for info as that is not a brand that came to mind.   

[Wayner]

2.5mv output is fine for a MM phono input.

Wayner

[kbuzz3]

the fischer 400C, sherwood 5000 and/or pilot 216a that the o.p. mentions would require a step-up between a lomc and the phono input of these units.  but it could certainly be done.  i wouldn't let the need of a step-up get in the way of a lomc w/the wintage gear.

but, unless you really wanna yust get something to play and don't care about the ultimate fidelity, i would pass on liz's deal, even tho the price is reasonable enough.  why?  well, i have never been too enamoured of the duals.  and, here's an interesting thread where most folks say they are close to the rega's but not quite there. 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/223793/rega-p3-and-dual-cs-5000

since the empires are much better than the rega's, imo, that would end any interest for me in pursuing the dual.

ymmv,

doug s.

doug -thanks for the response. Any particular empire you are enamored with-208?

[doug s.]

doug -thanks for the response. Any particular empire you are enamored with-208?

all the empires are excellent, imo.  if you have a stable support and do not need a suspended deck, the 208's are excellent; they have a heavier 1-piece platter, and they are easier to fit an upgraded tonearm.  if you want a suspended empire, the rare 498 has a one-piece platter.  this deck was manufactured before the more common 598 series.  the 698 has a cool tonearm, but is more prone to electrical problems, and tonearm headshell issues...

i used to own a 208, fitted w/a wintage grado wood arm.  i also ran an rs-labs arm on it.  this deck was close in performance to my early oracle delphi, upgraded to mkv specs, especially w/the rs-labs arm.  i now presently own a 498, which i recently was able to fit an o-l modded rega rb250 to; but i have not yet installed it in my system; my current set up means i will have to remove my oracle; i simply don't have room presently to run two decks.  pics of the 498, w/mod for the tonearm mount can be seen here:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=102113.0

a nicely refurb'd 208, w/aftermarket arm:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=104690.0

doug s.

[Ericus Rex]

Thorens has a new automatic 'table now.  Right at $1k, I think.  Audio Advisor sells it if you're interested in checking it out.