[jwr159]

Hi All:

I am hoping to get some insight into which sub solution to get. A little background....

Have been happily using a pair of full range field coil drivers for about 7 years now.

For the first 5 years or so, I used the drivers in a simple JE Labs baffle without any bass augmentation. Then about 2 years ago, I had a pair of transmission line speakers built for the purpose of getting more bass. The drivers still sound amazingly nice, but I have come to the conclusion that I prefer the open baffles, especially with the right bass augmentation. So  now I am considering switching back.

After doing some on line research, I have narrow down my choices to a pair of either the Hawthorne Audio Augie's or the TBI Mag ellans. I have heard neither. It  also is impractical to audition both before making a final decision.

Although a bit more expensive, I am considering the TBIs. From everything I have read, they are easy to integrate, sound natural and refined. They are also touted as being extremely fast. With the field coils, I am a bit concerned the Hawthorns won't be able to keep up.

At this point, I am just going on a gut feeling. If others have something to contribute to this comparison, would love to hear it.

Thanks much.

[JohnR]

After doing some on line research, I have narrow down my choices to a pair of either the Hawthorne Audio Augie's or the TBI Mag ellans. I have heard neither. It  also is impractical to audition both before making a final decision.

How did you narrow your choice down to those two? They are very different types of sub... well I hesitate to say sub really, more like woofers.

[JLM]

I've owned a couple of pair of transmission lines and love them, curious as to what aspects don't "do it" for you.  (I can understand how they may not mesh with OB.)

Please visit the bass circle and read up on the need for multiple subs (swarm) and Floyd E. Toole's "Sound Reproduction" that explains how bass works in residentially sized rooms.

Yes, very different subs.  TBI is mysterious, but as I vaguely recall is supposed to be some sort of transmission line.  Intrigued by them, but never enough to audition.

I've heard the Hawthorne Augies a few times.  Frankly the effect of the Augies alone (infinite baffle installation) was subtle.  I'm not a OB fan, understand the speed/openness, but not the whole dipole method for sound reproduction especially for bass (just the concept of out of phase bass waves canceling out makes no sense to me).

[mcgsxr]

I have never heard the Hawthornes or a swarm, but my brother owns a TBI sub.  I'd be happy with one of those for musical reproduction with a set of OB's.

When I was running OB mains, I played around with ported subs, sealed subs, but ultimately went OB for bass with EQ.

Still, for a simple, easy to integrate and satisfying musical bass experience, the TBI delivers in all 3 rooms I have heard it in.

[jwr159]

Thanks for the posts.

Considering the HA because they are OB and TBI because they are supposedly fast and very easy to integrate. The number of choices out there can be overwhelming. So if there are other alternatives, would be interested to learn about them.

I like the field coils in the transmission lines. However, I prefer the airy, open, natural, ease of the OBs. The difference is subtle and I could easily continue to use the TLs. But with the proper subwoofer and the OBs, it would seem I would get the best of both worlds.

 

[wisnon]

You posted:
"Although a bit more expensive, I am considering the TBIs. From everything I have read, they are easy to integrate, sound natural and refined. They are also touted as being extremely fast. With the field coils, I am a bit concerned the Hawthorns won't be able to keep up.

At this point, I am just going on a gut feeling. If others have something to contribute to this comparison, would love to hear it. "

I have a pal with a set and he completely agrees. Plus, i have spoken with Jan, the manufacturer and he explained why the TBIs had such clean bass. Give him a call to get the spile firsthand. He is very amiable and knowledgeable.

Telephone: 1-877-828-7829 (Toll Free USA)
770-421-6333

[kbuzz3]

I do not know anything about the hawthorne's and i generally dont like to give out specific product reccomendations b/c every room is different. But with that said, i have been a very happy user of a tbi sub for the past 8 years or so with two very different systems. i used it for a long time with a pair of standmounted omega super 3's and powered by either a rwa sig 30 or low powered vintage craftsman monoblocks.

For the past year and half i have used it with vintage ls35a (a very difficult to blend with subwoofer model) powered by many amps, including, a large bryston, a cheap emotiva mini-x, or my current fave a restored vintage sherwood integrated.   I would not hesitate to recommend the tbi-unless you are looking for HT 5.1 dinosaur thumping

One very important thing i must note. If you are going to call jan at tbi ask about the amplifier.  TBI makes subs with built in amps or external amps. I use the original model external amp- which has a lowest point xover setting only at 50.  The new model, stand alone model i have not heard but i believe it is significantly  more powerful and contains much more slope and x-over adjustments.

Other then an older dagogo review, I have not heard anyone on any forum comment on the newer amp but please report back what you find as it may directly affect your enjoyment if you go the TBI route.

[Bob in St. Louis]

I am arguably one of the biggest fanboys of HawthorneAudio. 
I have also never heard the TBI equipment.

That being said, (as much as I love my Augies), I would not consider them true "subwoofers" when mounted in OB configuration. 
I suppose it depends on your expectations with regard to the lower octaves and decibel level.
As does any driver, they have their limitations. But putting them on "subwoofer duty", by general definition, would probably serve to disappoint.

Now....put them in infinite baffle configuration, and that's an entirely different topic. 

Bob

[jwr159]

All:

Thanks for all the replies. Appreciate it.

I gave Jan a call at TBI earlier today. He was interesting and very helpful.

The new TBI amp ranges from 50 to 150. Jan recommended running the field coils full range. So the baffles need to be large enough to naturally roll off somewhere below 150.

Although I have not made a final decision, everything seems to be pointing toward the TBI solution.   

[Austin08]

I heard TBI sub before. Very impressive- fast, tight in small foot print. It intergrated so well with the main that I hardly noticed the sub was playing.

[lokie]

I lived with multiple TBI subs for several years.

They worked great in one room and not so great in another more difficult room. Both rooms were not equalized with two subs.

The room they worked well in was a conventional 4 walled average size room with a door. They were unnoticeable. Meaning that they didn't "sound" like anything. When you unplugged them, the double bass would just stop playing. They were pretty amazing in that respect. The volume of the instrument was in proportion to the rest of the music. there was no sensation that the room was getting "loaded" like you get with other subs. The bass lines were very articulate and sounded like an actual instrument... that was "there" and then "not there" if you turned them on and off.

In a bigger more unconventional room with open boundaries, they weren't quite "there".  So, I was ready to provide more current to get things going, but, Jan suggested that the motor wouldn't take too many more watts. I can't remember what the maximum watts were but maybe around 200?? Anyway, I didn't push them and I didn't want to add a third one, so, I moved on.

[scorpion]

I looked up your very first thread from 2007 and some of us are still around and kicking. 
John Bauman 'nullspace' wrote in your first thread and his journey is described on his web: http://nullspace.us/index.html where I think you can learn a bit.

I would not let the Fertins play fullrange to get the most out of them when you complement with bass.
Crossing 200-300 somewhere would be great I think.

Also if going OB I would seriously consider the OB Servo H-bass speakers from GR-Research.

/Erling