[bpape]

Fair enough.  Without seeing the rest of their room,  it's hard to pin down other differences. Your room essentially doesn't have both rear corners.  Obviously theirs doesn't have one, don't know about the other -can't see from the pic.

Just trying to run through the possibilities one at a time.

Bryan

[ebag4]

Have you tried to swap the polarity of one of the speaker's connections?  It is possible that one is hooked up backwards either in the system or from the factory.  Unlikely but maybe worth a try.

Best,
Ed

[Quiet Earth]

You put them 1 foot away from the rear wall and didn't hear any change in bass response??? Are you serious?

How close to the corners can you get them???

Btw, I agree with the gist of doug's post. Sounds like something is wired out of phase somewhere . . . . or some other issue. 

[Quiet Earth]

Your room essentially doesn't have both rear corners. 

There is a corner junction on the floor as well as the ceiling on the left side of his room. Does that one small window pane on the left wall eliminate the entire corner effect? Just curious.

[doug s.]

The results (though I wouldn't take for gospel the low frequency accuracy of the mic in an iPhone) don't show a drop at low frequencies. 

Also, from what I can see from the pics, the main difference between your room/setup and at the dealer is the proximity to the wall behind the speakers.  Yours are considerably farther out into the room yielding less boundary gain. 

Bryan

yet, he's still getting better bass from quad 11l's then from the mani-2's, when set up the same.  as i said before, there's something wrong w/the mani-2's or with them being driven w/the ar amps...

doug s.

[bpape]

Agreed there is a seam across the back.  Just missing the Tri Corners in the rear low and much of the wall/wall seams. 

Agreed Doug.  I haven't been looking at that too much since he heard the Mani-II's with HIS amp (or same one at the dealer) in the dealers room giving the kind of bass he wanted.  I will agree that the Mani's are a TOUGH load to drive.

One way to eliminate things is to use the DEALER'S pair of Mani's and see if the problem persists. If so, then use the dealer's amp with his Mani's and see if it persists.  If no in either case, then it's a combination of room/setup/etc.

I too am very surprised that there was NO difference moving them that close to a wall. I've heard those many times and changing distance to wall behind absolutely can make major changes to the frequency response.

Bryan

[bmckenney]

If you have the option, you might trying putting that rig in another room, maybe one with doors, and see how the bass response is.

I think you're going to have to either take your stuff to the dealer or his stuff to your place.

[ckimmelshue]

Okay guys ... I found the solution. 

I moved the Mani-2s to the long wall.  I placed them 36" from the rear wall and 60" from the left side wall and 60" from the false side wall on the other side (where the carpet meets the hardwood).  We have bass galore!  To be fair, I did have to use some alternative speaker cables so that I could keep the rack in the same position (for now) - so there were two changes to the system.  Obviously, the next step is to try the other cables when I move the rack over to the same wall. 




Imaging suffered a bit with this change, but the bass is all there.  Now I know why I bought these.  With that windowless wall there the speakers really excite the room and they go really deep for monitors.  I will now try and move them in small increments to improve the imaging. 

I will still look into room treatments.  We just moved here and we're slowly adding decorations and furniture. 

Thank you all for your help and advice. 

[Rob Babcock]

I'm glad to see you're closer to a solution.

[jtwrace]

Now go grab that SPL meter and get to work!   

[doug s.]

i still wanna know why the quads have better bass than the mani-2's in the 1st location.     didja also try the quads in the location where you're gettin' good mani-2 bass?

doug s.

[ckimmelshue]

i still wanna know why the quads have better bass than the mani-2's in the 1st location.     didja also try the quads in the location where you're gettin' good mani-2 bass?

doug s.

I'm definitely going to try this as well. 

[*Scotty*]

Doug, the Quads doubtless have a different impedance curve and a different bass tuning on the enclosure, they also don't have the top end extension that the Mani2s have in addition to different crossover components.
  There are at least three variables that help explain the differences that the OP heard between the two speakers. Also the output filter in his integrated amp's switching output stage could interact with the Mani2s impedance curve and give a rising characteristic to the response curve, all it would take is a 1dB lift over 3 octaves to, in effect, drown out the bass and this would not show up with the resolution the RTA lite program has.
 We may never know just what was going on in detail that would account for the differences the OP heard between the two loudspeakers, but at least he has a handle on a solution for the problem.
Scotty

[stvnharr]

Okay guys ... I found the solution. 

I moved the Mani-2s to the long wall.   
 

Now that you have your speakers on the long wall, you might like to try doing this when you get some time:
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=speakers&n=215930&highlight=Master+Set&r=

[ckimmelshue]

Now that you have your speakers on the long wall, you might like to try doing this when you get some time:
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=speakers&n=215930&highlight=Master+Set&r=

I will definitely try to dial in the placement when I return home this weekend.  I have the bass extension I want now, so it's time to get the holographic imaging back (it's mostly there, but not quite what it was the other way). 

I spoke with Nico Bruzzese (Vince's son) at length about setup and he has run into the same scenario I had and offered up many suggestions.  What a great company to put in support time like this. 

I thank you all again for your advice and tips.  I'll report back with some improved photos once I dial in the setup over the weekend and get back to enjoying the sound. 

[jtwrace]

Now that you have your speakers on the long wall, you might like to try doing this when you get some time:
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=speakers&n=215930&highlight=Master+Set&r=

Or do it the scientific way as I suggested earlier.   

[ckimmelshue]

Or do it the scientific way as I suggested earlier.   

I will try this. 

I'm sure, in Nashville, there are local folks who can help me tune the room.  The room is dedicated so I have the freedom to use some acoustic treatments. 

Does anyone know of a good source in Nashville?  I read about Eighth Nerve here on AC, but it appears they are no longer in business. 

[InfernoSTi]

If it were me, I'd order two GIK Soffit Traps in your favorite color.  That is what I did and couldn't be happier. It made a much greater difference than I ever would have imagined.  I believe my quote at the time was "Like a diesel truck was idling outside my room and then drove away when I added the GIK Soffit Traps."   It wasn't just the bass that improved, but the entire spectrum of sound. 

Just a thought from someone who has recently been in a "before" and "after" with the product.

John

EDIT: I don't mean to make a shameless plug for GIK...I've recently had really good results but any bass trap will do more for you than expected, including DIY.  I have found that some are better than others but in the end broad range bass traps that tame modes/ringing from 50 to 5,000 Hz is what you are after.

In my opinion, in rough numbers, sound quality comes from the following: speakers 25-30%, room acoustics 25-30%, source 20-25%, amp 15-20%, and other tweaks perhaps 5%.  Unless you listen outside or on headphones, the room is absolutely a component.  The measurements that folks are mentioning are the expression of that component, as are the "tune by ear" suggestions. 

Stated more directly, the change you experienced using the same speakers and gear simply by moving your speakers to a new spot in the room are a function of the room be a component that is as important as any your most important component (be it speakers, amp, source, etc). 

A minimally treated room following the normally accepted practices will almost certainly improve your listening experience.  Minimal treatment, as I understand it, begins with basic broad range bass trapping in the corners.  I have yet to hear of anyone adding bass traps to the corners and saying the sound got worse.  Pretty much without exception, everyone says "wow, that got better in ways I never expected!"   

Good luck and have fun!!!