[James Romeyn]

Sad to hear of this outcome.  When I hung up with Duke a few nights ago our little AK jewel was still in the running. 

Duke can hold his head up high considering the Prisma was punching it out with contenders several weight classes above its own.

Good on ya, Duke!   

[Duke]

Thanks for the good wishes, guys!

Okay the speaker that knocked mine out of the competition is the PMC IB1S-A.   It's thirteen grand a pair retail, street price no doubt somewhat less.  Here's a link:

http://www.vintageking.com/PMC-Loudspeakers-IB1S-A-Pair

I don't think the competition is over yet.  The other brands that I've heard were on the original shortlist are Focal, Dynaudio, Adam, and Barefoot.   

The Prismas were dinged for being too directional, overly large, and for not filling the room with enough bass, even with the Crown amp.   My guess is that studios have a lot more bass trapping than home audio rooms, because the issue I have to deal with the most often is too much bass.   

The "too directional" ding puzzles me a bit, as when set up correctly, the Prismas give a wider-than-normal sweet spot.  But they are indeed more directional than the others, and as a result the relative level of reverberant energy would be somewhat reduced, and this might be more obvious in a studio than in a fairly reverberant living room setting.   My standard solution would be a bipolar, but if the Prisma is a bit too big, then no way would a bipolar be practical.

Congratulations to PMC! 

[James Romeyn]

...The Prismas were dinged for being too directional, overly large, and for not filling the room with enough bass, even with the Crown amp.   My guess is that studios have a lot more bass trapping than home audio rooms, because the issue I have to deal with the most often is too much bass.

Yes, I fully agree with the above.   

The "too directional" ding puzzles me a bit, as when set up correctly, the Prismas give a wider-than-normal sweet spot.
 

Second this too!  The Planetarium Gamma's are their little stand-mount cousins requiring subs.  I was pleasantly shocked how wide was their dispersion in all planes.  Throughout the day I walked around them, confirming their wide dispersion in all directions.   

But they are indeed more directional than the others, and as a result  the relative level of reverberant energy would be somewhat reduced, and  this might be more obvious in a studio than in a fairly reverberant  living room setting.   My standard solution would be a bipolar, but if  the Prisma is a bit too big, then no way would a bipolar be practical.

It's difficult for a purely passive bass system to out perform active bass, and the smaller the box the more true this is.

I have no idea the sound of the Crown amp.  But I'm familiar with a lot of great audiophile amps including the beloved Atma-Sphere OTL.  I'd most highly recommend Linn's Chakra amp technology (pure analog chip with bipolar transistors added to boost current on demand) for AK speakers.  I've not heard but would like to hear Sanders' Mag-Tech ultra-high-power amps too.   

[Jeffrey Hedback]

Hi Duke,

This is my first awareness (along with your personal e-mail of similar theme).  I suspect when this all sorts out that the PMC's likely set up more quickly toward the response they are seeking.

I'll stand the ground of acoustics for a brief moment and strongly suggest that proper bass trapping does not impair the LF response or impact, but improves both spatially.

In a conversation last week you and I touched on what I suspect is going to be the deal breaker: "clutter".  I highly suspect your wonderful speakers were blocked (by other monitors and the console) and didn't get the chance to join together in filling the room evenly (which they certainly do).  I know the PMC's would have been set inside the AK's without the same blockage.  I also know due to size/room limitations, that Nigel set the Prisma's in their best possible location.

I also know they were very much appreciated!

Letting out more of the story, Trevor is currently working on records for both Jeff Beck and Seal.  He also just finished the new Yes record in this very same room.

Forward we go Duke.

[Rocket_Ronny]

Thanks Duke for the list. 


Rocket_Ronny

[Jeffrey Hedback]

not completely out of competition yet...we'll see over the coming days.

[Duke]

not completely out of competition yet...we'll see over the coming days.

Thank you Jeff, and also thanks for your clarifications in your previous post.  The final decision hasn't been made yet, and far as I know the Prismas haven't been taken off the list.  Apparently they did some things rather well.

In an e-mail this morning, Nigel told me that Trevor thought my speakers "sound great and very natural", but were too big for his room and so he wanted to try some others.   Nigel told me that his personal comments are "very musical".   

[Russell Dawkins]

In an e-mail this morning, Nigel told me that Trevor thought my speakers "sound great and very natural", but were too big for his room and so he wanted to try some others.   Nigel told me that his personal comments are "very musical".

I'd like to have this said about speakers that I designed!

[Larkston Zinaspic]

Is it possible that Trevor would appreciate the Prismas even more with tube amplification? A Crown amp would not be my first choice for demoing Duke's speakers--whether it's for a legend in the industry or a local audio buddy. I'm not knocking the Crown--maybe it sounded fabulous--but that was my first thought.

How much break-in time did these speakers get before Trevor heard them?


~Greg

[Duke]

Thanks, Russell and Greg!

I think the hassle of tubes would have outweighed their benefits in this application.  Apparently Trevor came back to the Prismas several times and said "these speakers really do sound good", so we didn't lose because they came up short in that department.   

[Duke]

Well today I heard that Trevor has made his decision:  None of the above!  Now I don't know whether he actually auditioned all of the speakers on his shortlist or not, but apparently the PMCs didn't "sweep" the Prismas across the board; I think I won in the "sounds natural" category.     

The real winners were Nigel Martinez and Jeff Hedback - you see, Trevor decided that the acoustics in his room (which they are responsible for) were at such a high level of refinement that he could put full-scale soffit-mount monitors in there, and their capabilities wouldn't be wasted.  This killed two birds with one stone:  Freeing up floor space, the taking up of which weighed against my speakers (and probably to a lesser extent against the others as well); and pushing the sound quality beyond what any of the midfields could offer.  The room modifications for the soffit-mount job will fall to Nigel and Jeff.  I would like to think the Prismas helped showcase the potential of the room for natural sound, if nothing else. 

So I'm sure you're all saying, yes yes this is all very well and good, but do get on with it man:  WHAT speakers are going into the soffits??   

The same ones that Trevor has in his London studio:

http://www.sarmstudios.com/studio3.htm

Those are Quested Q212s, and they sort of fall into a whole different ballpark than everything else that was on the table:

http://www.vintageking.com/Quested-Q212d-Active?sc=18&category=389

So if you've got the resources, it turns out the best midfield monitor isn't a midfield monitor after all.

[2bigears]

   WOW,on sale and only 42k.....holy 

[Duke]

  WOW,on sale and only 42k.....holy 

I think that's just for ONE...  but they probably throw in free shipping.

This is probably one of those cases where 80% of the cost is going into the last 20% or so of performance, but for some applications it's worth it.

[James Romeyn]

...The same ones that Trevor has in his London studio:

http://www.sarmstudios.com/studio3.htm

Those are Quested Q212s, and they sort of fall into a whole different ballpark than everything else that was on the table:

http://www.vintageking.com/Quested-Q212d-Active?sc=18&category=389

So if you've got the resources, it turns out the best midfield monitor isn't a midfield monitor after all.

The esthetics of Trevor's studio reminds me of an updated, modern version of The Record Plant in Sausalito (where I worked a couple hundred years ago).  Would love a brief visit at Trevor's studio if my wife brings me on her next visit to London.     

[Duke]

I did get one last follow-up report:  Apparently with the Crown amp, the Prismas were in fact fairly competitive with the PMCs in the bass region.   

Can't help but speculate that if price had been a major factor, the outcome might have gone our way.   Nigel told me that he would "offer" my speakers to studios he does design work for in the future, so apparently he was favorable impressed.   Google "Nigel Martinez" and you'll see that he didn't just fall off the turnip truck either. 

*  *  *  *

I'm presently working on some custom dedicated studio speakers, and will start a thread about them at some point.   Two 12" woofers in an MHM configuration, in a big box.   

[James Romeyn]

Go Duke, Go Duke....oh, excuse me, I'm watching and posting at a football game and got confused...Go Duke anyway! 

[jimdgoulding]

Were I in the market, the 2 way PMC Fact 8's would be a must audition for my size room and tastes, but, whoa nellie, they're 8000 oysters!   I must say that I thought the Prisms sounded superb driven by 30 SS watts at the Dallas show before last.

[James Romeyn]

Were I in the market, the 2 way PMC Fact 8's would be a must audition for my size room and tastes, but, whoa nellie, they're 8000 oysters!

And think of the horrible fish smell transporting those oysters to purchase the speakers!  Yech! 

I must say that I thought the Prisms sounded superb driven by 30 SS watts at the Dallas show before last.

Never had the pleasure of sampling the RP yet.  But I don't mind repeating that it's smaller stand-mount twin (the Planetarium Gamma, requires a sub, preferably subs) made some of the absolutely best sound I've ever heard, with a $200 Pioneer 100W 8-Ohm minimum rating receiver (granted, all the other associated gear was top notch).  Absolutely no acoustic treatment, sounded great everywhere in front of the speakers, standing or seated. Dynamic punch like it's going out of style. 

Listen to them if you want to become familiar with reproduced sound minus thermal compression and flattened transients (warning: you may not want to go back).