[kingdeezie]

So, I have a pair of Manley Neo Classic 250's that I want to try and squeeze some more performance out of.

They use EL34 for power tubes, 12AU7s for the input tubes, and 12BH7 for the driver tubes...

Everything right now is new production electro-harmonix tubes...

I wanted to try and tube roll with the amplifiers, but with 20 power tubes it gets complicated. I find it hard to spend thousands of dollars for something that is only going to last a couple thousand hours....

Does anyone have any suggestions for possible tubes? Is it worth just upgrading the input tubes?

[datman]

You might want to take a look at the JJ 6CA7. Hard to beat at $65 - $70/matched quad. I recently tried them in my Decware Torii III and they sound terrific and look great! In my situation they sound better than the Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z I had before.

[InfernoSTi]

I'm running JJ's in a completely different configuration (2A3/12AT7) but have to say I really like the JJ's for the money.  I think their whole family of tubes is a great value.  I guess the only way to beat the JJ "Big Bottles" at $65-$70/quad is to find a lower price: how about $64/quad? 

https://ssl.eurotubes.com/cart/index.php?page=view_products&category_id=3&sub_category_id=209

[bregez]

I would roll some old Telefunken 12AU7s and 12BH7s before I touched the power tubes.  Depending on the circuit design, they will affect the presentation more than the el34's.  New production EH signal tubes are good but they lack the low end and detail that some of the old Telefunkens and RCA clear tops can deliver. 

Brad

[richidoo]

I had Snappers for a while, loved those amps with the original factory Groove Tubes E34LS. They lasted 2500 happy hours. When they wore out I ordered a new set from Manley, but the quality was bad and they started to fail within a few hundred hours. Manley replaced a couple, then I asked for a whole new set, which they sent. Turns out that JJ who makes these for GT dropped the ball and the quality suddenly went south. Manley tried to screen them, but they were all bad. That's when they switched to the EH tubes, which sound smeared compressed and totally boring compared to the GTs which were truly awesome.  Even the bad tubes sounded great until they detonated.

I also tried JJ's own brand KT77s they were horrendous. And cryoed SED EL34s (black sable) from tubedepot.com, still not so great. The EH 6CA7s were better than both of those. The black treasure and new gold lion tubes were just coming out at the time when I was fed up with trying to find tubes as good as the GTs, so I sold the amps rather than dump another grand into them. Now I wish I kept them and retubed with Black treasure 6CA7s. I'm sure you would be very happy with those, imo they are the best el34 ever made. But it will cost ya! If you don't like them you can dump them used very quickly. They are a great tube. Check ebay for the best sellers/prices. Maybe you can negotiate a good price for large lot. It's just a commodity.

I know an AC member who once had good amount of NOS GT E34Ls if you want those, PM me. You could call GT and ask them if the shit tubes have flushed through the system yet, or it's still crap from JJ. They make some great tubes, but the quality can be poor, even on signal tubes, but the sound is sometimes really great. Frustrating!

[bladesmith]

Roll  the 12's and leave the power tubes alone...

[eclein]

I recently got some reissue so I am assuming they are new production Mullard EL34's and they sound pretty darn good for $35ish a pair, I also found some real, old original Mullards for the pre-amp side and they made a huge difference-I found them luckily from a head-fi guy for $25 a pair- I'll probably never find them again but there are tube deals out there. I use thetubestore.com and although my little amp is a whole different ball game I really think you can find what your looking for. Also changing the pre-amp tubes for me made a big difference so I'd go that route first over power tubes. Good luck King!!!!

[Ericus Rex]

In my setup, rolling the power tubes has had a far more pronounced improvement over rolling the miniatures.  But I hear ya about buying 20 EL34s.  Why not start with the 12XX7s and see what kind of improvement they give.  Cheaper experiment that way.

[kingdeezie]

Thanks for all of the great suggestions here everyone. 

I think I might try to roll the smaller tubes first. If anyone knows a reputable placed to get good NOS 12BH7 tubes please let me know.

I did a google search for something, and didn't come up with much.

I would be a little hesitant getting NOS tubes from ebay for the driver tubes, as I read somewhere that a failed driver tube can be disastrous to the amplifier. Ebay tubes are generally hit or miss.

[rivieraranch]

Run, don't walk away from JJ octals. The quality control is just absent.   

[Bill Baker]

As mentioned above, I would roll the 12AU7's. There are some very good NOS 12AU7s available that won't set you back a fortune. This will probably make a bigger impact on the sound than the power tubes. You will have to experiment to find the tube that suits your taste as nobody here can tell you what tube is best.

[rivieraranch]

You could try any number of 12AU7 alternatives, a 6189, a 5814, a CV4004 to name a few.

[Gopher]

You might want to take a look at the JJ 6CA7. Hard to beat at $65 - $70/matched quad. I recently tried them in my Decware Torii III and they sound terrific and look great! In my situation they sound better than the Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z I had before.

You piqued my interest over on the Decware forums with your mention of these.  The Shuguangs are clearly better peformance wise then the winged "c" tubes that came with my Torii, but the winged Cs seem to convey emotion a little bit better and thats been my experience with many of the high end chineese tubes (BTs/Psvane)--great performers that leave me numb. 

Were the JJs better in this aspect?

[yeldarb]

tubesandmore

Winged C for el34

also have NOS Svets

[Freo-1]

The small signal tubes can make a big difference, more so than the power tubes. 

I may be in the minority, but I find the older US small signal tubes are just as good as the Euro tubes at a much better price point.  I recently picked up a pair of NOS US Army 12AX7's from 1948, and they smoke the 60's Euro tubes I've tried.

[bladesmith]

The small signal tubes can make a big difference, more so than the power tubes. 

I may be in the minority, but I find the older US small signal tubes are just as good as the Euro tubes at a much better price point.  I recently picked up a pair of NOS US Army 12AX7's from 1948, and they smoke the 60's Euro tubes I've tried.

X2...

[decal]

No, you're not stuck with anything. You can buy what you want. 

[Listens2tubes]

12AU7 RCA cleartops are worth trying and available here http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x-12au7A-ecc82-RCA-Tube-CL-Top-Test-NOS-30-Avail-/370535762199?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5645a70917 at a fair price. Wish I found this when I needed these. 

[rbwalt]

beats me why people buy tubes from less than ideal sources. if you want well tested and graded tubes then go to ram tubes /music reference.

r.