This tweet from Stereophile was on my facebook

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Letitroll98

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Re: This tweet from Stereophile was on my facebook
« Reply #20 on: 25 Aug 2011, 03:09 pm »
    I have two friends who will sit down and listen to 3+ songs with me.  One is a recovering equipment junky audiophile, and the other is a lifelong mid-fi, passionate music lover.  Everyone else runs screaming from the room if asked to listen to more than one cut.  For the overwhelming majority, music has become something that you listen to while doing something else.  Occasionally the wife will listen to something with me, if I ask with passion.  I would have to restrain her to stay for more than two/three cuts.

+1 on that.  I have my S/O's son interested in hearing a excellent audio system and a friend/coworker looking to upgrade his home theater.  When he finally purchases something my list of 3+ song listeners goes back to 1.  My S/O has excellent analytical listening skills and can identify problems in my system in less than a cut, but as with your wife, I have to beg her to get to three songs, unless it's background music. 

Most people just want to listen to music as a backdrop to their lives, like a movie soundtrack.  The other minority viewpoints are on this forum.  At the last show I attended we had a hotel full of rapt listeners.  You could tell which were the best sounding systems because nobody talked in those rooms.  The other few million people in the county were listening to background music, it's just the way it is.  No problem, leaves more room for me.  On the other hand, most concerts I go to are sold out.  That's where the vast majority of the public wants to listen to music intently, live events. 

PDR

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Re: This tweet from Stereophile was on my facebook
« Reply #21 on: 25 Aug 2011, 03:10 pm »
    I have two friends who will sit down and listen to 3+ songs with me.  One is a recovering equipment junky audiophile, and the other is a lifelong mid-fi, passionate music lover.  Everyone else runs screaming from the room if asked to listen to more than one cut.  For the overwhelming majority, music has become something that you listen to while doing something else.  Occasionally the wife will listen to something with me, if I ask with passion.  I would have to restrain her to stay for more than two/three cuts. I agree that the Walkman-->Ipod may have influenced this attitude, but it doesn't explain the attitude of my 50-60 year old peers.
     One additional factor that adds to this is a generation has passed since most kids were expected to learn to play an instrument.  Pianos are no longer found in the average living room. Except for the function as the social binder for each upcoming generation, music for its own sake is diminishing with each passing year. 
    This devaluation of its place in our lives results in the tepid response to audiophile offerings.

Well said. In my home while growing up music was a daily happening.....not recorded, live.
Had a piano, guitars, harmonicas, tambourines, shakers etc. On the weekends friends and relatives would
come over and it would be a free for all, music would happen till the wee hours. All the kids took six years
of music in school, there was always a clarinet,trombone or something being played for practice in the house. The only one of four kids with any music in the house now is me.....its sad.
In my house there is a variety of instruments, and my son (30yrs) plays guitar, but my daughter (14yr)
shows absolutely no interest. She tried at my request for a yr of band in school....she hated it, but will spend hr after hr listening to music.
My wife grew up with an audiophile, her father has an extensive music collection and assortment of gear
that is mind blowing, yet she shows no interest in my room and could care less about quality...both of my kids on the other hand love to listen with me.
Maybe its a gene thats twisted :) 

nickd

Re: This tweet from Stereophile was on my facebook
« Reply #22 on: 25 Aug 2011, 03:32 pm »
Portability, recording and storage resolution, Home theater in a box systems and software theft all play their part I'm sure.

I have been trying to get my kids into music since they were little. My oldest (22) played Viola and has quite an "Audiophile" car system and home system. His interest in just sitting and listenening to music in "stereo" is still quite limited.

Serious listening doesn't fit into his busy lifestyle, and he is more intertained by his computer than his stereo (and his stereo totally rocks).

I brought him to RMAF last year and we walked around listening to different systems for a few hours. He was shocked at how much gear (espically tweeky cables) cost and completly turned off by most of the "painfull audiophile music" he heard. I realised I have become accustomed to terrible demo music and justifed it because the recordings are usually quite good.

He has no desire to go back to RMAF with me this year. That is not good for the industry folks. He will be an engineer in the next two years and the type of person willing and able to spend money on hardware and software. I don't expect him to become part of our "Audiophile" group. After his first (and maybe last) show, he thinks "Audiophiles" have very poor taste in music and are foolish for spending tons of cash on tweeks that are questionablly audible.

I fear he may not be alone with some of his thoughts.


Cheeseboy

Re: This tweet from Stereophile was on my facebook
« Reply #23 on: 25 Aug 2011, 03:58 pm »
We have alot of friends over for dinner.  After a couple bottles of wine there are always the guys that want to throttle back for a listen.  It is a change from when the womenfolk crank up the stereo and dance. 

My son rips downloads hiests and lifts music from everywhere.  While he doesn't critically listen he has a gasp on the emotion music can convey and my hope for him is that he continues to feature his sound cutting and music selection skills in his movie career.  I do know where he got the music history knowledge.  He does the same thing to me that I used to do to him.

"Hey, you gotta hear this"

SoCalWJS

Re: This tweet from Stereophile was on my facebook
« Reply #24 on: 25 Aug 2011, 04:03 pm »
I will always remember how I really got involved in (entry level) high-end audio. There were three co-owners of the business. I got along great with 2 of them, but the third guy was very highly opinionated and not tolerant of other's musical tastes. I got to the point where I knew his work schedule pretty well, and never intentionaly went there at those times. I went to the OC show back in June, and while almost all of the salesman were very good, there were a couple that chased me out of the room quickly.

I can definitely appreciate the basic point brought up by Stereophile.

Most friends and family know that I am into HT/Audio, and generally ask me for my input when it's time for new gear. I used to give my opinion very forthrightly (is that a word?) - then I realized that it could easily come across in the same manner as that salesman from so many years ago that I did not like. I consciously decided to become more responsive and informative rather than opinionated. I have come to realize that different people have different priorities and, more likely than not, hear things differently than I do (age, hearing loss, exposure to live music - was all of that live music at concerts using outdoor/horn speakers?, etc.)

I just want people to enjoy music and their systems now. I'll keep my opinions to myself unless I'm dealing with somebody who is also an enthusiast.

I'm trying really hard to make it out for RMAF where I'll be free to express those opinions. :green:

Speaking of RMAF - Danny, have you finalized your plans? What are you going to have on display/demo???????

Cheeseboy

Re: This tweet from Stereophile was on my facebook
« Reply #25 on: 25 Aug 2011, 05:25 pm »
Do you know the difference between a dead snake in the middle of the road and a dead bad audio salesman?

There are skid marks in front of the snake.

brother love

Re: This tweet from Stereophile was on my facebook
« Reply #26 on: 25 Aug 2011, 07:04 pm »
The post is here: http://www.stereophile.com/content/largest-hinderance-getting-people-interested-audio#comment-486069

I agree with him.

Thanks JohnR. I should have dug deeper. While there are many valid points in poster Anton's comments, I disagree w/ the net conclusions he reached.

The OP wanted to know what’s stopping more people from getting into hi-fi. I don't think it is high end equipment or audiophiles.

I have been enjoying this hobby (at times an obsession), for 37 yrs. (I started out my freshman yr. in college, & I certainly didn't have big bucks to throw around then). Raising a family, etc., I've always bought used equipment, fire sales, demos, mail order & now internet, etc.; & even now have never had a system costing more than $2500- $3,000 (I'd drive cheaper cars to have better stereo equipment & money for music).  High Fidelity can be mid-fi, or even low-fi. It doesn't have to be boutique/ esoteric equipment/ superior recordings, but for those that prefer that or think it is the "only" way to get high fidelity, good for them.

It IS about the music & enjoyment thereof.  Format, price, etc. doesn't matter. It's a fun hobby that in the grand scheme of things is a lot cheaper than many. Why more people aren't into it as much now, I can't say for sure...

launche

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Re: This tweet from Stereophile was on my facebook
« Reply #27 on: 25 Aug 2011, 08:41 pm »
Many opinions here are exactly what the stereophile poster is talking about.  Because  people enjoy music differently doesn't make it bad or anything of lesser value.  How many times have I heard "listen as background music..."  Just because they aren't sitting in a chair, head in vice, lights dim, all external noises controlled etc... doesn't mean one listens meaninglessly.  Do you know how ridiculous the whole sweet spot thing must seem to other people?  "You mean you have a special room, with special equipment, special electricity and ion negative cables and all variables controlled etc... to listen to music alone in the dark, you mean the same songs over and over again.  And you have a washing and drying machine for your records and a static gun too".

Let me ask you this question:  Did you enjoy Pink Floyd's The Wall more then when it was weaved into the fabric of your life (a soundtrack if you will) or now that you have your hi-fi rig?  For me it was then by far, it meant something, a movement, the music had ties to my life, it's a part of my memory associated with various life events.  In the big rig all I can do is appreciate the recording better.  Oh look, the heartbeat shakes the floor, the guitar is extreme right.  Who enjoys The Wall more the audiophile sitting in the sweet spot reveling in sonic bliss or the kid listening on the Ipod on his way to school walking the streets of New York City with all that other stimuli, mad because he'd rather be playing Frisbee in Central park today.  Music doesn't always have to be the event, much of the time it should be a part of the event called real life.

I'm enjoying the Black Keys "Brothers" CD immensely these days and it sounds good on the big rig but I enjoyed it even more when I was listening in my car with my best friend, brother and father and we were all grooving.  My friend who is forever 15 says "Listen to pops harmonizing with the growls" as my old man was in the back seat humming/growling along "da da da da"  It was a really funny moment that will be a lifetime memory.  The radio playing and my wife is cooking dinner and Whitney Houston's "You Give Good Love" comes on, haven't heard that song in years.  My wife starts singing and moving a bit, I notice and go over and give her a kiss on the back of the neck.  She turns and we start dancing slowly.  That's what it's all about folks, those are the lasting memories with music we all (should) have.  I can't think of too many great moments I've had alone in the sweet spot, it's all mostly the same repetitive experience (there's not enough stimuli).  Many have said it here, when friends comes over etc... then things get interesting.  Not much interesting about being alone trying to relive some random moment from another place and time.  Take the music and create new experiences of your own, that's the beauty of music especially portable and accessible music.  Who cares about trying to recreate the concert hall experience (yeah it's a nice parlor trick), no I want to be sitting by the lake on the porch listening to the blues sipping sweet tea and watching the kids play in the water.  That's how I like to hear Buddy Guy.  When you hike to the top of Puchu mountain and fire up "Bad Moon Rising" or something on your Ipod, it's going to stick with you. You can sit up there all day and listen to your Zen playlist as you look out over the clouds like you're in heaven, now that's living folks.

We may be the crazy ones trying to make our world rational and justified.  A member recently said (and it's common) he hates when the AC unit or fridge condenser comes on because it disturbs the black background of his music.  Do you realize how bizarre that really sounds.  Such extremes should not be needed to enjoy music, you're trying too hard if it is.  Yeah I notice the HVAC too but I just keep listening and enjoying the wonderful inventions of air conditioning and refrigeration while I drink my ice cold Newcastle Brown.

I've heard Stairway to Heaven 500 times, you mean each time I hear it I have to listen intently?  What exactly are these people missing by not listening in the sweet spot?  A sound stage, a reverberant hall, vocals that float in midair?  And how important are those recording artifacts to enjoying music?  I enjoy a nice recording and what it provides as much as the next guy but it's just one way to enjoy music and for me it's not the most important one. 

Ella has always sounded good on any stereo because she communicates.  If the music speaks to you it doesn't matter how it's heard.  I remember years ago hearing Guns N Roses for the first time in the wee hours of the night on some weak static ridden FM station, til this day I remember it exactly and it's the best I've ever heard them sound because of all the factors involved.  U2's "Wide Awake in America" on tape through my old Garrard stereo best I've ever heard them.

I just don't know if being an audiophile is perceived as fun by most people.  It surely isn't fun half the time when you are involved.  It can be a very frustrating hobby with little reward for all the resources invested.

As the saying goes:  The kids are alright... it's the guy alone in the man cave I'm worried about.

jimdgoulding

Re: This tweet from Stereophile was on my facebook
« Reply #28 on: 25 Aug 2011, 10:45 pm »
The extremes we go to is because there is more to music to us than the casual listener gets.  It's chemistry of some kind.  I'm not an introvert but I am introspective.  Music removes the veils, no pun intended.  It allows me to comprehend and imagine, to expand my consciousness.  Well, accept when the dang fridge comes on.  Oh, and a case could be made that a sound stage, a hall's reverberation or a singer hanging in the air are not artifacts, but rather the absence of them.

keenween

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Re: This tweet from Stereophile was on my facebook
« Reply #29 on: 25 Aug 2011, 10:55 pm »
It allows me to comprehend and imagine, to expand my consciousness.  Well, accept when the dang fridge comes on.

truer words...  :thumb:

launche

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Re: This tweet from Stereophile was on my facebook
« Reply #30 on: 25 Aug 2011, 11:34 pm »
For me a singer hanging in the air is an artifact, I have never heard that in real life. 
I think Pink performing at the Grammy's hanging from a sheet was the closest I've seen.

Again we are assuming just because we listen in the dark in a quite room we are something getting that much more from the music.
Maybe from the recording but not necessarily from the music.

jimdgoulding

Re: This tweet from Stereophile was on my facebook
« Reply #31 on: 26 Aug 2011, 12:04 am »
My reference was to opera.  Sorry.

neekomax

Re: This tweet from Stereophile was on my facebook
« Reply #32 on: 26 Aug 2011, 12:07 am »
Wow Launche, that was one of the best posts of I've seen on this forum.

Wait, you guys turn off the lights when you listen to music? Huh. Maybe I should try that  :)

Cheeseboy

Re: This tweet from Stereophile was on my facebook
« Reply #33 on: 26 Aug 2011, 12:14 am »
Great words Launche. 

Rclark

Re: This tweet from Stereophile was on my facebook
« Reply #34 on: 26 Aug 2011, 12:23 am »
That's really great Launche but don't rail against the guy in the mancave. I've built my system with such personally greedy considerations, but it is along the same lines of anything, the teenager who spends a few hours in his bedroom playing XBOX, the lady who spends all sunday afternoon in the library reading gardening magazines. It's all about personal time, and for us, it's listening to music as a focused main event.

 Nothing wrong with it at all, listening to music alone in a "mancave". Possibly one of the best ways to drift into positive levels of thought, enticing creativity, almost like meditating.

 Music doesn't have to be enjoyed one particular way. Walking throught the city with an ipod, as you said, is immensely pleasurable, and live music is the ultimate, especially among friends.

launche

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Re: This tweet from Stereophile was on my facebook
« Reply #35 on: 26 Aug 2011, 01:38 am »
Oh nothing against the man cave, I have one and wouldn't want to be without it.  I'm in mine watching a football game, listening to music and surfing the net right now,  Isn't life grand.  Enjoying music is a state of mind, even the best hi-fi systems can only take us so far.  We audiophiles just have to be respectful of other people's methods of enjoyment and not try to place our method or systems on some esteemed plateau we pity others for not having the good fortune to indulge in.

There is a sweet spot in life and it's hardly in between two speakers, at least not for me.

Rclark

Re: This tweet from Stereophile was on my facebook
« Reply #36 on: 26 Aug 2011, 01:48 am »
Agreed. But boy oh boy is it way up there  :green:


launche

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Re: This tweet from Stereophile was on my facebook
« Reply #37 on: 26 Aug 2011, 01:54 am »
Agreed. But boy oh boy is it way up there  :green:



Not even remotely close but hey different strokes for different folks.  :)

Rclark

Re: This tweet from Stereophile was on my facebook
« Reply #38 on: 26 Aug 2011, 01:59 am »
I think your 1200 posts would disagree with you  :green:

keenween

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Re: This tweet from Stereophile was on my facebook
« Reply #39 on: 26 Aug 2011, 02:03 am »
Thanks JohnR. I should have dug deeper. While there are many valid points in poster Anton's comments, I disagree w/ the net conclusions he reached.

The OP wanted to know what’s stopping more people from getting into hi-fi. I don't think it is high end equipment or audiophiles.

I have been enjoying this hobby (at times an obsession), for 37 yrs. (I started out my freshman yr. in college, & I certainly didn't have big bucks to throw around then). Raising a family, etc., I've always bought used equipment, fire sales, demos, mail order & now internet, etc.; & even now have never had a system costing more than $2500- $3,000 (I'd drive cheaper cars to have better stereo equipment & money for music).  High Fidelity can be mid-fi, or even low-fi. It doesn't have to be boutique/ esoteric equipment/ superior recordings, but for those that prefer that or think it is the "only" way to get high fidelity, good for them.

It IS about the music & enjoyment thereof.  Format, price, etc. doesn't matter. It's a fun hobby that in the grand scheme of things is a lot cheaper than many. Why more people aren't into it as much now, I can't say for sure...

^ good points here.

There are lots of hobbies/technologies for people to get hooked on these days. I know people who play on their cell phone constantly. Computers weren't always attracting people away from stereos, they sure are now. Internet addiction? Video games? A great time to be a hobbyist of any sort because you can delve far and wide on the internet, not to mention shop. Music is like a lot of things, it allows for an emotional response. People spend money on fashion because wearing the clothes they buy provides a positive emotional response. Lots of options besides music are out there.

If I never ventured towards hi-fi, I don't think my emotional response towards the music I like would be any less. I like hi-fi because of the emotional response towards the physical listening experience on top of the response to music.

For purchasing of stereophile advertised gear, how much of the population has the combination of money, time, knowledge and want?