[smwick]

I'm very interested in both speakers.  Anyone directly compare the two?  They both get stellar reviews.  Both use almost identical drivers and sounds like they have a very similar presentation.  On paper the lorelei has more bottom end "but" lists for about a grand more. 

[2gumby2]

I own the Odyssey Audio Kismet speakers which Klaus describes as the Lorelei on steroids. And I would agree with that description. Having heard all three, I think the Carbon 7s are on par with the Kismets though not quite as much bottom end and they are better than the Loreleis. The Carbon 7s are a better value IMO and I would recommend going with the Carbon 7s. If you really need more bottom end then you could mate the Carbon 7s with a subwoofer and still do well.

[smwick]

Thanks for your input.  The Carbon 7 uses the 8545K mid-woofer as opposed to 8545.  Don't know if that makes all that much difference or if it's the series crossover used on the Carbon 7.  Fritz doesn't use any caps on the Tweeter either.  How did you find the bass response of the Carbon 7 as opposed to the Lorelei?  You mentioned possibly adding a sub.

I own the Odyssey Audio Kismet speakers which Klaus describes as the Lorelei on steroids. And I would agree with that description. Having heard all three, I think the Carbon 7s are on par with the Kismets though not quite as much bottom end and they are better than the Loreleis. The Carbon 7s are a better value IMO and I would recommend going with the Carbon 7s. If you really need more bottom end then you could mate the Carbon 7s with a subwoofer and still do well.

[srb]

Fritz doesn't use any caps on the Tweeter either.

I've seen midwoofers run full-range without any crossover and tweeters using only a single capacitor as the high-pass crossover, but how do you make a high-pass filter with NO capacitor?
 
Steve

[smwick]

Maybe there is no high-pass crossover.  There is a simple two conductor binding post system with no capacitors in line with the tweeter. 

I've seen midwoofers run full-range without any crossover and tweeters using only a single capacitor as the high-pass crossover, but how do you make a high-pass filter with NO capacitor?
 
Steve

[planet10]

...how do you make a high-pass filter with NO capacitor?

Drivers in series, a shunt inductor across the tweeter.

dave

[2gumby2]

Thanks for your input.  The Carbon 7 uses the 8545K mid-woofer as opposed to 8545.  Don't know if that makes all that much difference or if it's the series crossover used on the Carbon 7.  Fritz doesn't use any caps on the Tweeter either.  How did you find the bass response of the Carbon 7 as opposed to the Lorelei?  You mentioned possibly adding a sub.

I thought the bass response was outstanding, but it's not going to go as low as the Lorelei. I use ZZ Top Mescalero as a test CD for all the speakers I audition, but it doesn't test the low frequency extension like a pipe organ CD would. Still, all three speakers that I mentioned sounded great. I just consider the Carbon 7 to be the best value of the three. As far as a subwoofer goes, it really comes down to what type of music you listen to. I listen to hard Techno and pipe organ music so I use subwoofers in my systems. I even use subwoofers with the Kismets, and they go surprisingly low.

[smwick]

I listen to mainly blues, acoustic guitar and some rock.  Thanks for your thoughts on this.  I will be driving them with AVA gear that I have recently ordered.  A fet Valve Ultra+ 350 double and an insight dac/pre.

I thought the bass response was outstanding, but it's not going to go as low as the Lorelei. I use ZZ Top Mescalero as a test CD for all the speakers I audition, but it doesn't test the low frequency extension like a pipe organ CD would. Still, all three speakers that I mentioned sounded great. I just consider the Carbon 7 to be the best value of the three. As far as a subwoofer goes, it really comes down to what type of music you listen to. I listen to hard Techno and pipe organ music so I use subwoofers in my systems. I even use subwoofers with the Kismets, and they go surprisingly low.

[saisunil]

You have nice choices - I think that Danny's N2X and N3X probably offer even better value / performance ... at the same time I don;t think you'd regret buying either ...

All the best

[smwick]

Thanks.  I had a look, but I'm not too sure if these would be in the same league as the above mentioned speakers. 

You have nice choices - I think that Danny's N2X and N3X probably offer even better value / performance ... at the same time I don;t think you'd regret buying either ...

All the best

[2gumby2]

I listen to mainly blues, acoustic guitar and some rock.  Thanks for your thoughts on this.  I will be driving them with AVA gear that I have recently ordered.  A fet Valve Ultra+ 350 double and an insight dac/pre.

I'm using an AVA Ultra 550 amp to drive the Kismets. A great combination for sure.

[JLM]

With enough juice, the Carbon 7s will fill a small/medium room nicely (not easy for a medium sized standmount).

IMO (and for several good reasons) running separate subs is superior to full range speakers without.

[eclein]

If I was starting over and in the same room I'm in I try Carbon 7's (The ones with the Seas woofer and Fountek Ribbon tweeter) and a Servo Sub....now that would be incredible, good tight punchy bass and crystal clear mids and highs but not harsh....oh man, I may need to rethink my setup now....

[smwick]

Ah yes, the Excel 7.  I had briefly looked at that speaker a while ago, when I was also looking at Salk Sound speakers, as Jim also uses that driver in a lot of his designs.  That speaker would probably require a sub.  The Excel 7 would also be a completely different presentation with the Seas driver.  I would think a little leaner perhaps.  My understanding is that the Scanspeak is a little more on the warmer side with out any loss of detail. I tend to like that over the brighter or leaner speakers that I have heard.  Mind you, I have never heard either of these drivers.  But both are top notch drivers.  Last night I had a brief talk with Fritz, and he  assured me the Carbon 7 needs no sub for most music.  One thing about monitors is that you usually get tighter bass response compared to most towers, as well as superior imaging. 

If I was starting over and in the same room I'm in I try Carbon 7's (The ones with the Seas woofer and Fountek Ribbon tweeter) and a Servo Sub....now that would be incredible, good tight punchy bass and crystal clear mids and highs but not harsh....oh man, I may need to rethink my setup now....

[Steidl Guitars]

The Excel 7 would also be a completely different presentation with the Seas driver.  I would think a little leaner perhaps.  My understanding is that the Scanspeak is a little more on the warmer side with out any loss of detail.

For what it is worth, that's my take on the Seas versus the Scanspeak as well.  The Seas, despite being a great driver, is just not for me; I prefer the more relaxed nature of the Scanspeak. 

[doug s.]

With enough juice, the Carbon 7s will fill a small/medium room nicely (not easy for a medium sized standmount).

IMO (and for several good reasons) running separate subs is superior to full range speakers without.

+1.  even if you run full range speakers that go down to 20hz, cross them over w/an active x-over to a pair of quality subs, and everything will sound better.  so, if these are your options, go w/the carbons, and use the savings for a good x-over and pair of subs.  whatever speaker you choose, relieving them and their amps of having to see any frequencies below 60-80hz will make them sound better, besides getting better bass.  and, you can run tubes on the mains and s/s on the subs...

[smwick]

Sounds good.  I will go down that route if needed.  As far as tubes and SS, the AVA amp is both.  It's a hybrid where the tubes only amplify volts and the mosfets amplify the current. 

+1.  even if you run full range speakers that go down to 20hz, cross them over w/an active x-over to a pair of quality subs, and everything will sound better.  so, if these are your options, go w/the carbons, and use the savings for a good x-over and pair of subs.  whatever speaker you choose, relieving them and their amps of having to see any frequencies below 60-80hz will make them sound better, besides getting better bass.  and, you can run tubes on the mains and s/s on the subs...