[Ericus Rex]

So, a number of people on the site, including the facilitator of this circle, expound the virtues of long arms.  I have on order a table that can support multiple arms and am considering what the 2nd arm should be (first is an Audiomods Series IV - 9").  I understand the tracking benefits of added length.  My question is; would the benefits of length alone be so great that a relatively cheap 12" arm, like this Jelco:

http://cgi.ebay.com/HI-END-JELCO-SA-750L-12-TONEARM-/290542765082?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a5b2c41a

...or this interesting looking Chinese unipivot:

http://cgi.ebay.com/12-Diamond-unipivot-bearing-tonearm-/170544183993?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27b539bab9

...would sound better than 9" arms of two or three times the price?  I.E. another Audiomods, Ortofon 212, Rega 700, Tecnoarm or the like?

THX!

[Wayner]

While longer tonearms produce a lesser tracking angle distortion, they are not immune from other plagues, such as internal vibrations, a heavier weight (affecting compliance) and can offer a mounting challenge because of the extra length. The extra weight and length are also a challenge to the horizontal and vertical bearings.

Just because it's a longer arm, doesn't equate automatically to a better arm.

Wayner

[steveblezy]

I cannot comment from personal experience about a longer arm as I have never had one but regarding the AudioMod arm, good choice. I have been running one of Jeffs arms on a Townsend Rock 7 for years now. It is a damned nice arm that is light years above the rega donor that it is based on. You have made a great choice on this.

Looking forward to hear about your observations on the longer arm once you find one that you like.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[Elizabeth]

one pic is worth a thousand words:

[Ericus Rex]

one pic is worth a thousand words:

[Ericus Rex]

I cannot comment from personal experience about a longer arm as I have never had one but regarding the AudioMod arm, good choice. I have been running one of Jeffs arms on a Townsend Rock 7 for years now. It is a damned nice arm that is light years above the rega donor that it is based on. You have made a great choice on this.

Yep, Jeff's arms are crazy good for relatively little money.  They, hands down, beat the more expensive Origin Live and Michell Tecnoarm modded Regas.  And stock Regas?  Hmph, light years ahead of them.

I think Wayner's probably right though.  I might get less IGD from a 12 incher but the sound would not be any better than a comparably priced 9 inch arm.  Still weighing my options.  Opera/Consonance also makes a 12 inch version of their carbon fiber arm for under $800.

[AudioSoul]

  I went through the same thing as you about a year ago. I acquired a Empire 208 cheap and I wanted to put a Jelco 750DL on it. I asked the same question. Most of the response I got where it was not worth it to put a 12 inch-er on it. I went with the
9 inch 750D and I am glad I did. It looks and sounds great. If you use a 12" arm you are limiting your cart. choices because they are so heavy.....JMHO

[BaMorin]

one pic is worth a thousand words:

Looks like the arm needed a recurve added to compensate for the amount of gravity.

How bad does that puppy "scrub" during play?

[Wayner]

The arm is a violin, or cello bow.

Wayner

[Ericus Rex]

And the plinth is a micro grand piano!

[BPoletti]

So, a number of people on the site, including the facilitator of this circle, expound the virtues of long arms.  I have on order a table that can support multiple arms and am considering what the 2nd arm should be (first is an Audiomods Series IV - 9").  I understand the tracking benefits of added length.  My question is; would the benefits of length alone be so great that a relatively cheap 12" arm, like this Jelco:

http://cgi.ebay.com/HI-END-JELCO-SA-750L-12-TONEARM-/290542765082?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a5b2c41a

...or this interesting looking Chinese unipivot:

http://cgi.ebay.com/12-Diamond-unipivot-bearing-tonearm-/170544183993?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27b539bab9

...would sound better than 9" arms of two or three times the price?  I.E. another Audiomods, Ortofon 212, Rega 700, Tecnoarm or the like?

THX!

I have not heard the Jelco SA-750L 12" but have heard the SA-750D 9".  I'm currently using one after trying several others costing [a lot] more.  It was just better and a great match for the Clavis da Capo currently riding in the headshell. 

Don't sell the Jelco 750 series arms short just because of their price.  They are really excellent performers, their price is far below that of their nearest competition.  IMO, they are on the short list of the great performing captured bearing arms. 

It might be an interesting exercise to modify a Jelco arm with a long extended arm tube of similar overall mass as the standard armtube.  Would require a larger counterweight or a modification of the existing counterweight, but the Jelco bearings are certainly worth trying to get it to work.

[TheChairGuy]

I think Wayner's probably right though.  I might get less IGD from a 12 incher but the sound would not be any better than a comparably priced 9 inch arm.  Still weighing my options.  Opera/Consonance also makes a 12 inch version of their carbon fiber arm for under $800.

There's real good materials that allow a tube to be 10" or perhaps even 12" as rigidly as 9"...with all the inherent advantages of better tracking that physics dictates with a 12" round disc. It costs precious little more for a manufacturer to make a longer arm...so any maker that makes reasonably priced, high performing 9" arms that sell a 10-10.5" version should suffice just fine 

I've never tried a 12"...but what I've read is that the distance may be too far and some flexing of the arm tube occurs.  10 and 10.5" seems to be the sweet spot.

Harry Weisfeld of VPI has stated this many times and why he equips his Classic and Classic3 with a 10.5" arm.  It's got the better tracking down pat over a 9" with very little loss of rigidity and dynamics next to the 9".

I'll likely never go back...so much cartridge geometry twiddling is dispensed with a 10 or 10.5" arm, too.

John

[orthobiz]

Harry Weisfeld of VPI has stated this many times and why he equips his Classic and Classic3 with a 10.5" arm.

John

Maybe so, but is the Classic chassis big enough to accommodate the 12 VPI arm?

Paul

[Ericus Rex]

Good info here.  Thanks guys!

Aside from VPI, anyone else making a 10-10.5 inch arm?

[BPoletti]

IIRC, the Micro Seiki MA-505 is a 10"+ arm.  One great [though maybe considered by some, vintage] arm.  The Jelco SA-750E is a 10 1/2" arm.  There is a variation of the SME 3009 that is a long arm, not sure if it's 10 1/2" or 12". 

[BobRex]

Plenty of people, but you may not like the prices.....

Triplanar, Graham (10" and also 12" arm wands), Talea, Shroeder, there are a few Chinese arms that I can't think of right now.

[TheChairGuy]

Maybe so, but is the Classic chassis big enough to accommodate the 12 VPI arm?

Paul

Nope - but I think the sweet spot in tonearms is a 10 or 10.5" arm.  It's what Harry Weisfeld of VPI claims...and many others more knowledgeable than I on the subject and that have tried 9, 10+" and 12" arms. 

Jelco and Clearaudio also make 10"/10.5" arms I think...there are probably many others, but I just don't know 'em.

John

[bastlnut]

absolutely,

12" tonearms for me!

regards,
bas

[SteveRB]

I've had great success with the Jelco 10".

[bastlnut]

hallo,

i will elaborate a bit more.
i have both the 9" and 12" version of 2 tonearms, the grace and the Stax.
i prefer the 12" version of each.
the reasons i read above are the design parameters, not determining factors for buying.
the farther away the pivot is, the less it must move. which is a good thing for the stability of the cartridge.
warp fluctuations are also lessened by arm length.
arm movements are smaller and at a slower speed in relation to the mass.

9" tonearms are great for keeping the dimensions of the whole TT small.
10" and 10,5" are good compromises for being compact and increased performance.
if you have the space, use a longer tonearm.

regards,
bas