Timepiece 2.0 Review (finally)

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Double Ugly

Timepiece 2.0 Review (finally)
« on: 22 Mar 2004, 02:34 am »
For those who’ve asked about my review of the SP Technology Timepiece 2.0s, I apologize.  This has been delayed for a number of reasons, most of which would be uninteresting and/or irrelevant to most or all of you.  I don't fancy myself as a reviewer, and make no guarantee that what you'll read will tell you want you want to know.  If you have questions, I'll do my best to answer them.  

If you intend to read beyond this point, I recommend finding a nice, comfortable chair...you're gonna be here a while.

Equipment used with the speakers over the past 3 months
Amp:  Eighth Nerve-modified Carver Pro ZR1600
Pre-:  Balance Audio Technology BK-3i, Placette Audio Remote Volume Control (RVC)
Source:  Sony DVP-CX777ES (stock and w/ Empirical Audio mods), Empirical Audio-modified Sony S7700
DAC:  Danny Richie-modified ack dAck! (will soon try the Empirical Audio-modified Perpetual Tech P-3A)
Interconnects:  Audience Conductor, Chimera Labs Advantage Series II, Esoteric, Stealth Indra (beta), VeraStarr Silver Reference
Digital Cables:  Onix Grand Master, Stealth Varidig, Stealth Varidig Sextet (beta), Stereovox HDXV (the Empirical Audio Bitmeister Lite will be here soon)
Speaker Cables Audience Conductor, Monster, VeraStarr Silver Reference Bi-wire.

The audio rack is a OmniMount Cosmic Audio Tower.  The transports were used with three (3) Ayre Myrtle Wood Blocks beneath them, each speaker rests on three (3) Audio Points atop their respective stands, and each stand has threaded Audio Points at each corner.  The speaker stands are filled with Micro-Bearing Conductive Steel fill.  The Audio Points and Micro-Bearing Steel fill are from Star Sound Technologies.  The wood blocks will soon be replaced with Audio Points.

Current system configuration[/u] (i.e. best sounding to date)
Amp:  Eighth Nerve-modified Carver Pro ZR1600
Pre-:  Placette Audio Remote Volume Control (RVC)
Source:  Empirical Audio-modified Sony S7700
DAC:  Danny Richie-modified ack dAck!
Interconnects:  Stealth Indra (beta)
Digital Cable:  Stealth Varidig Sextet (beta)
Speaker Cables:  VeraStarr Silver Reference

With the exception of the battery-powered DAC, all equipment is plugged directly into cryo’d Porter Ports on a dedicated 20-amp circuit and is isolated (electrically) from the video equipment.

The Room
First, you should know that we live in this room.  It is the hub of all activity within the house, and is the only route from the front door to anywhere else on the first floor (except through my bedroom, and that's a  :nono:).  It is anything but ideal, but it's what I have.  

The front 3/4 of the room is slightly narrower (13’-8”) than the back 1/4 (15’-5”) due to a bookshelf and fireplace hearth.  The room is just under 19’ long with a 9’ ceiling, and my listening distance is between 14’ and 15’.  The speakers are 9' apart, center-to-center.

The right speaker is 2’ from a built-in bookshelf/countertop combo with storage beneath.  The left speaker is 2’ to the right of and 1’ in front of my front door, and is approximately 1’ in front of and 1’ to the left of stairs leading to the second floor.  It is also just inside and 3’ away from the sofa.  And finally there’s the matter of the 56” Samsung DLP television sitting between and just behind the speakers.  Here’s a picture for the mental image deficient.  



The back of the room isn’t any better, and may be worse.  Looking from stage center, the back wall extends out 53.5” (a little over 4’) before it stops.  There’s an opening of just under 5’ that leads into the dining room before the wall begins again.  The right wall is just under 6’ wide and extends to the adjoining wall.  Here’s another picture for the imagination impoverished.



And yes, I move my chair to a spot between the speakers when I do critical listening, though I’ve found I miss little even with sitting offset with the Timepieces.

About me…
I’m no audio expert; have never claimed to be and don’t expect I’ll ever be one.  I simply love music, and since putting this system together have found my fondness for music runs deeper than I knew.  I’ve only been into this level of audio for less than a year, and haven’t heard the mega-buck systems many of you have heard, and some own.  My reference was (and is) the live music I've heard in countless auditoriums, bars, jazz and blues joints all over the country.  I've spent a fair amount of time in Austin and Memphis, a couple of places I consider among the best for small venue live music, where you experience the music as much as you hear it.  I live in a very rural part of the country, and don’t have the option of schlepping down to my local super audio guy and borrowing a few components to audition.  So I went about building this system by reading everything I could on various forums and tried to buy products that a consensus of folks seemed to like, as long as what they “liked” about the component agreed with what I wanted from it.  

My wife is also a music lover and has been instrumental in the evaluation process.  Although she’s a highly trained musician and has played with Thelonious Monk and Maynard Ferguson, she HATES the word “audiophile” and makes a conscience effort to remove herself from anything approaching an audiophile-esqe activity.  This has proven troublesome, but through patience, love and the occasional shopping spree I’ve managed convince her to lend her expertise in the final analysis of the system and, in particular, the speakers.

Going into the project, my objective was to build a 2-ch system that is very accurate and revealing without sacrificing musicality.  That may sound vague, but it’s not to me and I’m the one who will ultimately measure the success or failure of my actions and decisions.  I also wanted a system that could reproduce everything from Beethoven to AC/DC with equal aplomb.  I don’t know that I’m there yet, but I’m pretty sure I can see the neighborhood from here.

The Speakers
I can’t imagine what I can add to what infinity driver, reefrus (said they sounded more "real" than his RM-40s and Sound Lab A-1s for crying out loud), audiojerry and others have already told you, but I'll tell you a little about my journey.

I was terribly disappointed at first …and that’s an understatement.  The music was dry, lifeless and flat.  There was no soundstage, only a wall of sound, all balled-up and confused between the speakers.  I knew my room was bad (sonically speaking), but it wasn’t THAT freakin’ bad.  Nathan Loyer of Eighth Nerve was kind enough to drive down from Nashville, and I was sure he’d be able to cure my ills, but was mistaken.  He spent almost 12-hours taking measurements, changing cables, swapping out transports, moving speakers to-and-fro, in-and-out, etc., etc.  Finally, around 10:30 pm I turned to Nathan and said, “It sucks.”  And it did.  The only positive that came out of the whole tweaking session was that I discovered my speaker cables (the VeraStarr Silver Reference) are better than good, and that the Audience Conductor is the best interconnect bargain that I am aware of.

The next morning I called Bob (Bob Smith of SP Tech) and asked how he wanted to handle the speaker return.  He wished aloud (again) that I’d had an opportunity to hear the speakers with something other than a tube pre-amp.  Now Bob’s not totally against tubes, but he is definitely wary, and not without some reason.  The truth is that Bob has had little experience with tubes, and what little he had wasn’t good.  And I’m told and have read that tube components can be somewhat temperamental, and pairing them with the wrong speakers and/or accompanying components can be bad…or worse.  Wanting to give the speakers (and Bob) the benefit of the doubt, I asked Bob if he’d be willing to extend the money- and shipping-back guarantee for another 30-days, or however long it took me to find a SS pre-amp to put in the system.  I told him straight-up that I didn’t think it’d make a difference and that I couldn’t and wouldn’t make any promises to keep the speakers, or that I’d even be able to find another pre-amp, SS or otherwise.  He agreed, and based on comments by Horsehead I’d read some time ago extolling the virtues of his Placette Audio Remote Volume Control (RVC), I purchased a RVC two days later.

The RVC arrived while my wife was out of town, but she called every evening to see how things were going.  She never failed to ask how the system sounded with the RVC, and I never failed to sidestep the question.  I couldn’t answer because the system was transformed.  I couldn’t tell her or anyone else how good it sounded because I didn’t trust my own ears.  I needed verification, and got it when she came home later in the week.  Within moments of putting on one of her favorite tunes (Narada Guitar, 15 Years of Collected Works, Disc 2, Track 2), she grabbed 6-year old Bud (the boy, not the beer or doob) and started dancing.

My wife loves music first and foremost, but dancing comes in a very close second.  In all the time we’d had the Timepieces (over 3 weeks at this point), this was the first time the system was musical enough to move her to dance.  

Turns out there was an impedance mismatch between the BAT and Carver Pro.  Neither Nathan nor I thought to check it when he was here.  Too bad…I’d considered the BAT to be the one piece I’d keep, no matter what.  I’d still like to try tubes as some point, starting slowly (with the pre) and maybe trying an amp later.  But for now, it’s digital/SS all the way.

The short of it is they sound great, as long as the associated equipment doesn't have any glaring flaws.  If it's in your system, for better or worse, you will hear it with these speakers.  And anyone who says cables don’t make a difference needs to stop by my place sometime.

The highs are clear and airy, but detailed, without any sibilance or brightness (confirmed by my bat-eared wife, and I mean that in the best possible way).  As has already been reported by others, the bass is simply amazing for a 2-way monitor…or 3-way floorstander as far as I’m concerned.  The only way I’d want more bass is in an HT system, and I’m not sure I’d need it even then assuming the speakers were all of the SP Tech variety.  The bass is exceedingly tight and accurate to the recording, whatever that may mean.  It isn’t boomy or smeared in any way, and will definitely give you that “thump in the chest” audiojerry and infinity driver mentioned.  I submit that those who suggest pairing them with subs haven't heard them, and are basing their opinions on reference points gleaned from experience with other speakers.  These reference points are rendered invalid, IMO, when the Timepieces are entered into the equation.  Hearing is believing, and I’m a believer.  I never dreamed so much bass could come from a single 8” aluminum cone.  

Soundstage, imaging, separation are all above average IMO, and I'm sure they'd be better in a dedicated - or better treated – listening room.  Option-wise I'm very limited in my current abode, and will move in just over a year.  I'm not interested in spending the time, money or effort on room treatments to get the laser-like imaging and soundstage width others have said the Timepieces are capable of in a room I won't be in that much longer.  I've read the comments and reviews, and I know the untapped potential is there.  That'll have to do for now.

What I’ve tried to say is that they’re musical, INFINITELY musical speakers, and are very, very accurate.  They're emotionally involving, yet uncolored.  If you like your music as warm as your bedtime milk, look elsewhere.  If you have a hearing impairment and need the highs to break glass and kill rodents at anything above 85db, move on.  If you have a problem component you need to mask, you've come to the wrong place.  But if you want an accurate speaker that conveys what’s on the disc in a musical way, and you have up to $3k to spend (depending on the finish), an audition is worth a thousand reviews.

As always, YMMV, because no one speaker will please everyone.  I’m happy with ‘em, and that’s all that matters to me.

DU

Horsehead

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Timepiece 2.0 Review (finally)
« Reply #1 on: 22 Mar 2004, 02:46 am »
Thanks for sharing your opinions DU.  My Continuum review will eventually appear.  I just need time to fully realize the potential of these speakers and what they are capable of.  I just cannot get past how incredible the dynamics and bass are.  It is truly amazing.  Coming from the 40s, I thought my room was the limiting factor on bass and dynamics-I was very wrong.  They are certainly not about just bass and dynamics either. They are not bass heavy or dark sounding speakers.  They will not make an alto sound like a baritone. So far they are doing everything extremely well- I am very happy. :mrgreen:

Double Ugly

Timepiece 2.0 Review (finally)
« Reply #2 on: 22 Mar 2004, 03:04 am »
Quote from: Horsehead
I just cannot get past how incredible the dynamics and bass are.  It is truly amazing. 
Wow...can't believe I forgot to mention the dynamics in my mini-novel.  I guess so much has already been said that it slipped my mind.  But you're right...the dynamics are absolutely amazing.  Attack, decay, brilliantly fast transients…and it all flows so effortlessly from the speakers. 

I had an opportunity to hear a pair of very highly regarded monitors recently that retail for almost twice the Timepiece’s asking price.  They were in a dedicated listening room connected to very nice equipment.  The soundstage and imaging were nonpareil IMO, but the sound didn’t come close to the Timepieces.  They were colored on the warm side of things, not too bad, but the congested “look at me, I’m a monitor making big sound” thing was appalling. 

DU
« Last Edit: 15 May 2007, 02:27 pm by Double Ugly »

Horsehead

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Timepiece 2.0 Review (finally)
« Reply #3 on: 22 Mar 2004, 03:22 am »
Quote from: Double Ugly
Attack, decay, brilliantly fast transients…and it all flows so effortlessly from the speakers


BINGO :!: String instruments are especially good through the Continuums.

Rob Babcock

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Timepiece 2.0 Review (finally)
« Reply #4 on: 22 Mar 2004, 03:53 am »
I haven't had an opportunity to hear either speaker, but given the sheer physical size and number of drives of the RM40's I'm shocked to hear that the TP could best it dynamically! :o   They must be pretty special speakers indeed.

TheChairGuy

Timepiece 2.0 Review (finally)
« Reply #5 on: 22 Mar 2004, 04:08 am »
Double Ugly,

Thanks for an eye opening review of the Timepieces  :o

It sounds like a great looking set-up you have...what stands do you have the Timepieces on?  They look great in that faux stone finish on the pillars I think I see in the pics.

mgalusha

Timepiece 2.0 Review (finally)
« Reply #6 on: 22 Mar 2004, 04:26 am »
Very nicely done DU. I'd love to hear your system. I'll give a call if we happen to be in that part of the country. Of course you might move before that happens. :D

Mike G.

Aether Audio

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Thanks DU!
« Reply #7 on: 22 Mar 2004, 04:55 am »
Hello Everybody,

Thought I'd drop in for a look-see and waddaya know, we have a review!  Thanks DU, the check will be in the mail in the morning :lol:   Really though, its moments like this that makes it all worth while.  I'm not going to ramble on, just wanted to stop in and say thanks to everyone for your support.  We're here for you and hope to keep on providing the most bang for the buck.

I also want to re-iterate our position on the tube issue.  Tube technology has the potential to perform at levels equal to and even exceeding in cetain ways, the best solid-state designs.  It's all a matter of design and parts quality.  Check out your local, high powered TV transmitter.  The device putting out the kilowatts is a metal jacketed, water cooled TUBE!  You won't find a solid-state transmitter that can come anywhere near the power of even a moderate powered tube unit.  Not at VHF & UHF frequencies anyway.  So don't take my advice to DU as an indictment against tubes.  It's just that we believe that typically, if you're going to find a tube device that performs at the levels required to bring out the best in our products, they have to absolutely be "top shelf."

Oh yeah, one last thing.  To all the former skeptics out there - (to be envisioned as spoken with a long southern drawl) "We t-r-i-e-d to counsel ye but ya jest wouldn't have it!" :banghead:  

Take care all!:dance:
-Bob

Double Ugly

Timepiece 2.0 Review (finally)
« Reply #8 on: 22 Mar 2004, 05:09 am »
Quote from: TheChairGuy
Double Ugly,

Thanks for an eye opening review of the Timepieces  :o

It sounds like a great looking set-up you have...what stands do you have the Timepieces on?  They look great in that faux stone finish on the pillars I think I see in the pics.

You're welcome.

The stands are from SP Tech, and are finished with the same oak burl veneer as the speakers.  It isn't faux stone, but they're gorgeous to me.  Bob’s crew did an excellent job with mine, but I believe he's outsourcing the veneer and finish work now.

Quote from: mgalusha
Very nicely done DU. I'd love to hear your system. I'll give a call if we happen to be in that part of the country. Of course you might move before that happens. :D

Mike G.

Thanks, Mike.  You know you're more than welcome any time, though I wouldn't wish this place on anyone.  If you make it, though, my wife's cooking is good enough to make you forget where you are for a while.   :D

DU

reefrus

Timepiece 2.0 Review (finally)
« Reply #9 on: 22 Mar 2004, 10:29 pm »
Nice review DU!
Glad to hear you decided to keep the TP2.0 and make them work. They are indeed very special speakers IMHO.   8) I should have my pair ready for demo as soon as I tweak my room! I'll make sure my information is available so anyone in Denver or just passing through can stop on by and check them out.

JLM

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Timepiece 2.0 Review (finally)
« Reply #10 on: 23 Mar 2004, 11:18 am »
Thanks for posting your audio travails and results DU.  It seems that you're speaking for many of us that listen for the sake of the music first, with the bells and whistles coming later (not exactly a popular audiophile position to take).  With Bob's background in the pro scene and with Crown my greatest concern was that they would be deadly accurate and deadly clinical (unmusical).

Your findings are very exciting and gratifying to me as the one who introduced SP Tech to Audiocircle.  BTW is there anything that the Timepieces don't do well?

Currently I'm on a different path (having single full-range driver floorstanding speakers built for me, based on actual measurements of the drivers themselves) and hope to use them in a nearfield setting.  Unfortunately cost is an issue and these speakers (and the size of amp required) should come in at half the price of the Timepieces (and recommended amp).

We're planning on building a house in the next year plus that will include a room for me (primarially for 2 channel music playback).  Having my own room was a given, making it into a listening room adds little cost if the proper space is available.

Double Ugly

Timepiece 2.0 Review (finally)
« Reply #11 on: 23 Mar 2004, 02:08 pm »
Quote from: JLM
 With Bob's background in the pro scene and with Crown my greatest concern was that they would be deadly accurate and deadly clinical (unmusical).

Your concern was certainly justified, IMO.  But I hope the combined experiences of infinity driver, reefrus, Horsehead and myself are working to dispel those fears.  


Quote from: JLM
Your findings are very exciting and gratifying to me as the one who introduced SP Tech to Audiocircle.

As they should be.  I'd personally like to take this opportunity to thank you for sharing the review of a new and promising speaker manufacturer with the AC community.  It's certainly worked to my benefit!   :D


Quote from: JLM
BTW is there anything that the Timepieces don't do well?

Frankly, no...not that I've found yet.  That's not to say they're perfect or do everything better than every other speaker on the planet.  But I've not found that they do anything below "well."  

If I had to nitpick, I'd say imaging and soundstage in my room is only  slightly above average.  But as I said in the review, my room is NOT a sonically good room, and to expect the exacting imaging and huge soundstage others have realized with the Timepieces is unrealistic.  IMO, if someone wants speakers that'll give the most of what they offer in virtually any setting, they should check out the omnidirectional models from B&O and MBL, assuming they can afford them and like their sound.  

I'd also say that they're not forgiving at all, and IMO the best speakers in the world would be all about forgiveness...to the room, to the recording, and to the associated equipment.  The Timepieces are NOT forgiving, and force you to seek out the best equipment and recordings you can afford.  I've spent a great deal of time and energy in the past 3 months auditioning a lot of different equipment, trying to find what works best within my somewhat limited budget.  I can't say it's been fun, but it's been very educational and ultimately worth it.


Quote from: JLM
Currently I'm on a different path (having single full-range driver floorstanding speakers built for me, based on actual measurements of the drivers themselves) and hope to use them in a nearfield setting. Unfortunately cost is an issue and these speakers (and the size of amp required) should come in at half the price of the Timepieces (and recommended amp).  

Full-range floorstanders @ half the price of the Timepieces...hmmm.  That's a most interesting project, and I hope they can provide for you all the sonic enjoyment the Timepieces have brought to me.

That said, you mentioned the amp a couple of times.  I have all of $1000 invested in my amp, and would venture to say it will drive most any speaker.  That I can spend so little and yet get so much from the Timepieces is amazing.  If your amp is less expensive and sonically superior to mine, I'm sincerely interested in knowing what you've found.  

Best regards,
DU

Horsehead

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Timepiece 2.0 Review (finally)
« Reply #12 on: 23 Mar 2004, 02:16 pm »
Quote from: Double Ugly
JLM wrote:
Your findings are very exciting and gratifying to me as the one who introduced SP Tech to Audiocircle.  

As they should be. I'd personally like to take this opportunity to thank you for sharing the review of a new and promising speaker manufacturer with the AC community. It's certainly worked to my benefit!  



Well said DU.. Thanks JLM!