[marknoir]

"Lyra Helikon and Grado Statement Series Reference 1 are seriously in the running.  Both of those are good compliance matches for my arm, as is the Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood (its a moving magnet) that I am curious about."

Hi Jerome

Lyra Helikon is almost the total opposite of Koetsu, and you'll be in the same ball park as you are now, with a little more fluidity than Ortofon.

Grados are just not up there, IMHO, period. Any Benz Glider will beat them. Even though Salvatore thinks that wooden Grados sound like "an improved Koetsu". I beg to differ. BTW, every Grado I had did not track well. Being here in Brooklyn, I even went to the factory to discuss that, and was given the answer that some records are just "severely over-modulated". Perhaps here in the circles there are some fixes for that.

Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood is one of the biggest jokes and scams on the market, being nothing more than a re-badged Audio Tecnika AT - don't remember what number - with a different cantilever and stylus. There is a big thread on it on Asylum. It sounds to me like you are moving in the wrong direction. I guess Koetsu has lost it's pull on you

Cheers

[jsaliga]

I probably wouldn't have to look very hard to find opinion on Vinyl Asylum and elsewhere that would pretty much disqualify any cartridge from consideration -- even the ones I already own and like.     I already have two very fine cartridges that I like a lot: the Ortofon Jubilee and Benz Copper Reference.  So the object of this exercise is to try cartridges that I have not heard that bring something different to the table.  The Koetsu Black is still under consideration.  What I am not considering is spending a lot of money on a cartridge that is a compliance mismatch with my tonearm.

--Jerome

[BobM]

Why not just get a Dynavector and stop worrying? No, it's not one of those lush Koetsu's or Grado's, but they are ultimately musical and balanced.

[woodsyi]

Whatever Jerome wants.

I see that all Koetsu woodbodies have same weight and compliance but he only wants black.   

[jsaliga]

I see that all Koetsu woodbodies have same weight and compliance but he only wants black.   

Here is the resonance chart for the Rosewood...

http://www.cartridgedb.com/resonance_from_cart.asp?cdesc=Koetsu Rosewood Red&cmass=8.2&ccomp=5

And here is the chart for the Black...

http://www.cartridgedb.com/resonance_from_cart.asp?cdesc=Koetsu Black&cmass=9.5&ccomp=14

Are you suggesting that the resonance chart is wrong?   If it is then I would like to be shown the correct data if its available.  According to the above the wood bodied Koetsus are not a good match with my medium mass tonearm.  Similarly the Black appears to be a good match for my tonearm.  But I welcome a correction if I am mistaken.

I get the impression that some of you think I am being overly difficult.  I appreciate the comments, even the posts that I disagree with.  But I don't think I have disrespected anyone who has done me the courtesy of giving an opinion or making a suggestion.  I was merely looking for some people to share their ownership and listening experiences.

--Jerome

[woodsyi]

Good luck with the old Black -- apparently that is the only cart that has softer cantilever.  Even the new Black goldline is 5 x 10-6 cm/dyne at 100 hz. 

Out.

[jsaliga]

Good luck with the old Black -- apparently that is the only cart that has softer cantilever.  Even the new Black goldline is 5 x 10-6 cm/dyne at 100 hz. 

I noticed that too about the Black Goldline when I was looking at the resonance charts.  Thanks Woodsyi.

--Jerome

[jsaliga]

I spent a few hours late last night researching this subject on Vinyl Asylum.  I don't know if I would go so far as to say that the resonance charts are the final word for me...but when I see cartridges that fall well outside the range for my tonearm it sends up a red flag.  I was able to find two threads with a couple of SME IV and V owners talking about their Koetsu Rosewood and Urushi cartridges and only one topic where a SME 309 owner commented very briefly about his Rosewood Signature.  None of the discussion was particularly deep and insightful but I did get the sense that those few SME owners were happy with the performance of their low compliance Koetsu cartridges and SME tonearms.  But that is really all I could take away from what little discussion that I was able to find.

Why is this important to me?  Because I want to make sure that if I buy a Koetsu and don't find it to my liking that it is because of the sonic characteristics of the cartridge rather than a compliance mismatch with my tonearm.  We are, after all, talking about a two or three thousand dollar investment.  It is one that I can afford to make, but it is still a sizable chunk of disposable income.  I would rather not squander it on an audio experiment that is disadvantaged from the get go.

I am tabling the Koetsu decision for the time being and will continue this line of inquiry over at Vinyl Asylum.  I would like to extend a sincere thank you to everyone who posted in this thread.

--Jerome

[Fido2]

hey Jerome,
 Did you ever get the Koetsu? I stupidly and accidentally snapped the cantilever off of my Dyna DV-XX2MKII. So I splurged on a Koetsu Black. Man I absolutely LOVE this thing so far. The tonality of voices, horns, strings etc is just incredible. The detail, as someone said above, is perfectly and naturally integrated into the music. It is not bright and I too have found many MC carts a tad brightish. I have tried Shelter 9000, 7000, and Dynavector DV-XX2 and the Koetsu lets me just really enjoy the music. I was listening to an old Wes Montgomery LP on Verve and man I was in the studio. Then Bob Seger Night Moves, this is a brightish album but my God the song Night Moves had me almost crying with nostalgia it was so sweet and real. AWESOME! BTW I have an SME 309 tonearm also on a SOTA Nova vacuum table. Good to see you. I miss you over on head-fu...lol

[jsaliga]

It's been quite a while since we last chatted but it's good to see you here.  I never did go for the Koetsu, though I did run into a number of folks over at the Vinyl Asylum who own the SME 309 and are using Koetsus with excellent results.  That said, I'm really happy with my Ortofon Jubilee.  It's a great cartridge.  When the time comes for a replacement I might consider a Koetsu, but until then I intend to stand pat.

--Jerome

[jimdgoulding]

I held on to a Black back when I was juggling cartridges.  What I mean to say is that it was a keeper for me.  But I didn't not like any of them.  I had a bro who used to visit Japan twice a year and hide away cartridges in his luggage.  Something to do with tariffs or something.  Thanks to him I had extended stays with a number of MC's.  An FR Mk III was really a lush sounding cartridge.  Then FR went to the 201 model and completely changed directions.  I still have my Black but it is currently in repose.  I liked an Accuphase, also.