[Quiet Earth]

You said that very well Mike!

Excellent post!!! 

 

[rollo]

Stu I'll second Accent on Music in Mt kisco. besides being the best Linn TT set up man around they are pleasant nice people. great store if one likes what they sell.


charles

[BPoletti]

Be happy you live in an area with good dealers.  I gave up on St. Louis, MO dealers a long time ago.  My last purchases were from Immedia in Berkley, CA.  And that has been a while back.

[CSI]

One of the first things I learned in business school was the old saying, "You can eliminate the middleman but you can't eliminate the middleman's function". As a former audio retailer myself I was very much aware of the function we provided: bringing the goods to the customer so he could actually see and hear them before purchase, education as to what goes into a good sound system (and how to do it all within your chosen budget), and a comfortable place to relax and enjoy before you buy. Then, of course, we had to offer the goods at a competitive price.

Over the years, many of these functions have been shifted elsewhere. The internet can give you lots of information about the goods and you can often buy direct from the mfg. The education function is provided by reviews and, particularly, by "objective" hobbyists on this and other forums. The listening is a problem but the common 30 day trial goes a long way to offset that.

All that is left for the quality retailer to provide is the opportunity for comparative listening and a fun place to relax and hang out. When so many of the middleman's functions have been picked up by other channels, the retailer is too often left with the just hang out crowd and not enough of them spend enough money to keep very many of these retailers in business.

It is no one's "fault". It is just the way it is.

[KnowTalent]

One of the first things I learned in business school was the old saying, "You can eliminate the middleman but you can't eliminate the middleman's function". As a former audio retailer myself I was very much aware of the function we provided: bringing the goods to the customer so he could actually see and hear them before purchase, education as to what goes into a good sound system (and how to do it all within your chosen budget), and a comfortable place to relax and enjoy before you buy. Then, of course, we had to offer the goods at a competitive price.

Over the years, many of these functions have been shifted elsewhere. The internet can give you lots of information about the goods and you can often buy direct from the mfg. The education function is provided by reviews and, particularly, by "objective" hobbyists on this and other forums. The listening is a problem but the common 30 day trial goes a long way to offset that.

All that is left for the quality retailer to provide is the opportunity for comparative listening and a fun place to relax and hang out. When so many of the middleman's functions have been picked up by other channels, the retailer is too often left with the just hang out crowd and not enough of them spend enough money to keep very many of these retailers in business.

It is no one's "fault". It is just the way it is.

As far as mentioning "comparitive" listening....evaluating any piece of gear at a dealer, imo is of little use as the differences in room acoustics are most likely going to skew results.

Low volume drives higher prices only if demand exists. Given a shrinking 2 channel market segment it is my opinion demand is also shrinking and therefore prices should drop.

[ctviggen]

As far as mentioning "comparitive" listening....evaluating any piece of gear at a dealer, imo is of little use as the differences in room acoustics are most likely going to skew results.

I totally disagree.  I went with a friend to review speakers in the 4-10k range.  We listened to at least 10 different sets of speakers in the same room with all the same gear, interconnects, speaker wire, etc.  It was easy to select winners doing it that way.  And there's really no other way to do this.  I had someone over my house to listen to two different sets of speakers, but only two.  The place I went to with my friend is long gone, so the days of listening to many different items are pretty much gone, unless you can go to one of these meetings.

[jimdgoulding]

Surely not everything can be delivered to and heard at home.  Next to last purchase I made was a turntable.  Phono cartridges?  A dealer pal called me when a customer of his traded up to a then top of the line ARC pre.  Another one in Dallas decided not to carry an active speaker which I drove up and brought home.  I miss that.  Miss getting to hear new products and bumping into fellow phools on a Saturday.  I did get a sort of brush off at Lyric in NY but that was OK, I wasn't expecting less.  I was a tourist, after all.

[nrenter]

I miss Audio Concepts in Houston.  Nice place to hang out and get some hands on exposure to new stuff not to mention listen.

I drove to Houston to buy my Ayre AX-7e, CX-7e and 5-Pxe from Audio Concepts because I refuse to patronize Audio Concepts in Dallas (no relation) - and I gladly paid list for the privilege to do so. However, the guy who "helped" me knew far less about the hardware I wanted to buy (not to mention the other goodies in the store) than I did. AC's "value add" was that they were one of the next closest Ayre dealers to Dallas (I should have gone to Austin).

[jimdgoulding]

The guy in Austin formerly worked at AC in Houston a long time ago.  I hope he's still truckin. 

[KnowTalent]

I totally disagree.  I went with a friend to review speakers in the 4-10k range.  We listened to at least 10 different sets of speakers in the same room with all the same gear, interconnects, speaker wire, etc.  It was easy to select winners doing it that way.  And there's really no other way to do this.  I had someone over my house to listen to two different sets of speakers, but only two.  The place I went to with my friend is long gone, so the days of listening to many different items are pretty much gone, unless you can go to one of these meetings.

Sure, I agree you can distinguish differences in a common setting but what I was trying to say is even if you find something to your liking at a dealer it may end up sounding totally "different" in your own personal listening space.  Therefore the home demo becomes critical imo

[Letitroll98]

...........It is no one's "fault". It is just the way it is.

Great post CSI ( I quoted only a sliver), I totally agree.  But to follow up on that sliver, the two B&M dealers I mentioned that have been able to keep their doors open have a very heavy internet presence with attractive, well designed web sites.  This uses the very things you noted as liabilities to build on their strengths.  You can order online nationally both new and used products at competitive prices, they have the 30 day home trial, but for locals it entices you to stop by the store which keeps the floor trade moving.  I think this is pretty much the case for most of the successful B&Ms that I've seen, perhaps I'm wrong.