VPI Scout, Scout Master or Aries 3 Black Knight?

Wayner · « **on:** 30 Jun 2007, 08:21 pm »

It's been 37 years since I bought a new turntable. Well, I got some money burning a hole in my pocket. But I says to my self, lets not be stupid. The price for the Scout is $1650 while the Aries 3 Black Knight starts at $3400.......yikes! The real question is are these tables actually going to sound that much better than my VPI HW-19jr with AudioQuest PT-6 tonearm? Remember, I'm also the AT440MLa pimp and that's the cartridge in the jr.

I talked to a dealer today and he suggested the Aries 3 with a Dynavector 10 x 5, however, that is an MC cartridge and goes against my grain abit. Now I'll have to get a phono pre-amp if I get the 10 x 5. He did offer a 20% discount on a cart/table combo.

Any of you have any one of these tables and what cart to you have on them? Or do you think I should be happy with the jr.?

w

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #1 on:** 30 Jun 2007, 08:58 pm »

Good luck on any of those choices, Wayner!

VPI seems to be a very able and erstwhile company (I've spoken to them a couple times - I own the HW-19 Mk. III). Any of those mentioned should be a nice upgrade from current HW-19 Jr. Certainly, the heavier platter, higher quality inverted platter bearing, heavier mass plinth in general will improve matters...as will higher quality tonearm (not that the old Audioquest/Jelco's were slouches I bet!), 300rpm motor, etc.

Is he NOT offering a 20% discount only on the table? It's summertime, sales slow down on indoor-related activities like audio (particularly in your geographical neck o' the woods where Summer is a scarce commodity) - as I'm spending your money, go for the Aries 3 Black Knight...but ask for the 20% discount outright.

He's still making over $1200.00 or so on ya' if that makes you feel any better

WEEZ · « **Reply #2 on:** 30 Jun 2007, 09:31 pm »

Wayner,

First of all, you won't need another gain stage with the 10 X 5. It's a higher output MC (2.5mv) that's designed to work with a MM phono input. Your T-8 or Omega should work fine.

As for the turntables...before I offer an opinion...are you planning to replace the 19?..or just add to your arsenal?

WEEZ

Wayner · « **Reply #3 on:** 30 Jun 2007, 09:41 pm »

WEEZ,

I'd be just addin' to the arsenal. The HK-T25 will go to the closet with the other 2 AR-XA's. I just want a new table before I croak.

aa

riffer · « **Reply #4 on:** 30 Jun 2007, 10:54 pm »

You won't be getting the best out of any of those tables with the 10x5.

My first cartridge on my Scout was the 20xH. Worked through some of the better Benz cartridges (e.g. L0.2) and settled on the Ortofon Rondo Bronze.

I can't really comment on the original question, as this is my first table since a Dual fifteen years ago.

mtodde · « **Reply #5 on:** 30 Jun 2007, 11:12 pm »

The Aries is going to have a different sound than the Scout & Scoutmaster...it is a bit more forward although the Black Knight may well fall in between the Scout & Aries 3 sound since it has the JMW-9 tonearm. If you like the sound of your HW-19 more than the Scout or Scoutmaster I'd say the Aries is your table but if you prefer the slightly more laid back sound of the Scout or Scoutmaster you'd be happier with either of them.

I went from a Scout to an Aries 3 and it was a pretty significant upgrade.

I've had very good results with my Shelter 501 on both the Scout & Aries 3. A friend of mine went from a maxed out HW-19 Mk. V to the Aries 3 (using a Benz Ebony H on both) and the results were still a nice upgrade.

In The Groove · « **Reply #6 on:** 1 Jul 2007, 04:12 am »

Quote

I talked to a dealer today and he suggested the Aries 3 with a Dynavector 10 x 5, however, that is an MC cartridge and goes against my grain abit.

I'm finding the Grado Sonata sounds good on my Scoutmaster which would be in the same price range. It has a nice warm tone to it. You might look at those. VPI recommends the 20X series from Dynavector and offers a 1.5 mV for around $700 I believe.

WEEZ · « **Reply #7 on:** 1 Jul 2007, 12:55 pm »

I have a similar take to mtodde regarding the sound differences between the various VPI models. But I wouldn't call the Aries 'forward' necessarily, but rather, 'bigger sounding'. Closer to the TNT sound.

VPI really disappointed me when they stopped supporting the 19 series. What a screaming bargain they were.

Have a look at SOTA before you drop the big $$'s though, would be my advice.

WEEZ

In The Groove · « **Reply #8 on:** 1 Jul 2007, 10:42 pm »

I think VPI was trying to move up sonically from the 19 series and wanted some uniformity in the new line, probably for reasons of parts inventory, costs, etc. There are still lots of aftermarket folks servicing the HW-19 series in any event. Mike Fremer thinks the Scoutmaster is the sweet spot in the VPI line which is one reason I bought one but I like the finish of the Aries.

VPI has told several people they are creating a tonearm upgrade option for the Scout series. I'd love a JMW9 with adjustable VTA. I also like one big feature of the Scout series: affordable arm wands for easy changes of cartridges. I'm going to keep my Grado and buy an arm with my next cartridge so I can compare and have a backup.

jpv · « **Reply #9 on:** 2 Jul 2007, 04:43 pm »

I just bought a Scoutmater with the HWM-9 arm to replace my HW-19jr with a FT-3 arm.
I moved the Grado ref platinum to the new table. The table is still breaking in and is getting better.
My jr with a DIY SAMA is just as quiet no bearing noise at all. With the SAMA no vibration got to the plinth at all. The scoutmaster with no suspension you can fell the vibrations on the table, I am currently make a better sandbox to isolate the table more. The arm is harder to work with, but it is nice to be able to remove it.
The lows are lower, sound is more dynamic, and resolves more detail. The soundstage and imaging are very close. The grado does like to dance around with this arm on some albums.
no dustcover

TommyTunes · « **Reply #10 on:** 2 Jul 2007, 05:19 pm »

I would not recommend any Grado cartridges with a VPI table. I had a Reference on my max'ed out HW-19 IV and now have a Sonata on it. While on my Aries 3 I'm using a Benz. Unfortunately until I get some additional $ the Sonata will have to stay but IMO it homogenizes all music. If you like to have all the dynamics removed buy it. I will say that if you have a hard solid state sounding system or use a sterile sounding preamp it might provide some benefit.

Additionally, Grados are notorious cartridges for hum and leading edge noise on VPI's. There are many better cartridges at that price point including Sumiko, Lyra, Benz etc.

1oldguy · « **Reply #11 on:** 16 Aug 2010, 12:16 am »

The Aries is a great looking tab table.

TONEPUB · « **Reply #12 on:** 16 Aug 2010, 01:20 am »

Why not just upgrade the arm and cart on your current VPI? That's probably going
to make a bigger diff.

Do you like the AT sound, or would you like something different? If so, what would you like that your current combination doesn't offer? Any limitations on phono preamp?

And, if you'd like to stay MM and are interested in an almost brand new Clearaudio Maestro Wood, PM me, I can hook you up!

starkiller · « **Reply #13 on:** 16 Aug 2010, 05:17 am »

No help here but whatca' planning on doing with the Sony??

bside123 · « **Reply #14 on:** 16 Aug 2010, 05:43 am »

Wayner: What level is your current VPI HW-19? I've owned three of these tables over the years, and in my experience, they are wide open to upgrades that show real and very tangible improvements. I saw that you were recently considering buying a Scout. It may be possible to perform some upgrades to your existing table that would outperform the Scout... and for less money. I am currently using a maxed-out VPI HW-19 MKIV with additional tweaks and upgrades I performed myself. One would be hard pressed to match the performance of this table without spending beacoup bucks... I mean several thousands more. As a matter of fact, in my correspondence with VPI, their feed back to me was that my table would be close to rivaling anything they made!? I dunno, maybe they were blowing smoke up my skirt. Anyway, long story short, I've seen on these threads that you like working on turntables. Why not turn that HW-19 into a screamer? Just an idea. Good luck.

Wayner · « **Reply #15 on:** 16 Aug 2010, 12:02 pm »

Since this thread was started over 3 years ago, I'm shocked that it got resurrected. I think at that time, I was looking for something from a different state of mind. Now that I am building my own, my interests have changed, tho the recent offering of a used VPI definitely caught my eye.

I believe the HW-19 that I have is a jr. It has a 1" platter and came with a AudioQuest PT-6 (Jelco SA250) tonearm. I is quiet, but can't create the soundstage that my new ARCom can.

Wayner

kgturner · « **Reply #16 on:** 16 Aug 2010, 03:40 pm »

Well if you need a platter for a home built table, I have one for sale. *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge*

Kevin T

Wayner · « **Reply #17 on:** 16 Aug 2010, 03:55 pm »

But then I also need a motor and a pulley.....wink, wink!

Wayner

kgturner · « **Reply #18 on:** 19 Aug 2010, 01:57 am »

Found one!

Letitroll98 · « **Reply #19 on:** 22 Aug 2010, 02:08 am »

Quote from: Wayner on 16 Aug 2010, 12:02 pm

Since this thread was started over 3 years ago, I'm shocked that it got resurrected.

Can't figure it either, maybe 1oldguy has an answer? Anyway, since it was, perhaps I can continue on the same vein and add a new VPI Jr question.

I have an HW-19 Jr with a Mark III platter/bearing that makes all the difference in improving the soundstage and pitch stability of this modest table. But it came with an RB300 tonearm. I rewired it with pure silver to good effect, but it's still just an RB300. How about the idea of dropping in a JMW 9 tonearm? Worth the $900 or would another arm, or another table entirely, be the best investment?