WMD 15" Sub

zybar · « **on:** 2 Mar 2004, 03:33 pm »

Does anybody have the Weapon of Mass Destruction yet?

If so, what do you think?

Did you compare it to anything else around the same price point?

Thanks,

George

LAL · « **Reply #1 on:** 2 Mar 2004, 08:45 pm »

I don't have Kevin's sub but I did buy the Tumult driver and the amp from him. I then made my own cabinet based on the North Creek Leviathan cabinet. You can see the plans for this on the North Creek site. Its a larger more complex cabinet than Kevin offers and would be fairly expensive to buy. The Tumult driver is the most impressive driver I have ever seen. It is really a shame to have to bury it in a cabinet. It weighs as much as many complete floor standing speakers. The amp is also very impressive. Look around and see how many 30lb plate amps you can find. Sound wise the two are no less impressive. I also have a Rava which is a very nice sub, but there is really no comparison in output capabilities between the two. For music in a small to average room the Rava is very satisfactory but in my very large room the Tumult is so much more convincing. I have it supplementing the bass of a pair of VMPS RM40's in a 9000+ cubic foot area. It integrated very easily with the VMPS and the combination makes for very impressive bass when music calls for it. I'm not sure how it would work in a small to medium sized room. It would be a terror for home theatre applications. I can't imagine any thing bettering it for any where close to the money Kevin is asking for it. Highly recommended

zybar · « **Reply #2 on:** 2 Mar 2004, 08:57 pm »

Thanks for the reply.

I will be using it with RM 40's as well.

At first I am just going to use them in HT. I may later decide to use them for msuic as well.

My room is 25'x17' so I think that should be big enough to not be overwhelmed by the WMD.

George

ctviggen · « **Reply #3 on:** 9 Mar 2004, 08:30 pm »

How would you compare this sub to the VMPS larger? They'd come out close to the same price; the VMPS might even be cheaper and boasts higher SPL at 20 Hz (not that we know what the testing conditions were). (Or hear 20 Hz for that matter.)

zybar · « **Reply #4 on:** 9 Mar 2004, 09:10 pm »

Bob,

How do you figure the prices are the same?

A fully loaded larger is over $900 without an amp, crossover, cable, and shipping. Amp would run $400-1300 depending on what you want to spend. Crossover would run $300-1000. Say $50 for cable. This means total cost will be somewhere in the $1800 range at the cheap side of things and a heck of a lot more on the higher end of the scale.

The WMD is roughly $1400 with shipping and doesn't require an amp, crossover, and cable.

I am not stating which one will sound better. Just simply stating that pricing is not that close.

If I am wrong on my numbers, please let me know so I can be sure I am comparing apples to apples.

George

rosconey · « **Reply #5 on:** 9 Mar 2004, 09:29 pm »

buy from a vmps dealer and you save 20% or 15 if you go kit-
shipping inc if you buy direct-
crossover will come with the amp if you buy a sub amp-
if used with a pro-the pro has a crosssover built in-

vmps kit from dealer delivered 750$ or so all options, add in a big ass parts express sub amp w/ built in crossover(1000watts)-350$ plus shipping-
and a cable of your choice

i have a large

the wmd looks like a very good deal also -with a smaller foot print

ctviggen · « **Reply #6 on:** 9 Mar 2004, 09:31 pm »

Well, I had seen the VMPS larger for $560 (or $590), but I can't find the link. $600 plus shipping would leave around 700 to play with. Does the WMD come with a cable? Interesting! You're right -- you probably can't get a VMPS larger for the same price. And the DIY cable sub seems to be better than:

http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_pb2_plus.htm

I currently have a SV sub, which I like (it's not bad for the price -- $750), but it doesn't have the "slam" that I'd desire. Perhaps I could get the DIY and put it in a corner with the SV sub! That would be fun (except for the neighbors!).

Do you have a sub now?

Kevin P · « **Reply #7 on:** 10 Mar 2004, 04:11 pm »

I'd say the comparison is apples & oranges. The VMPS is a PR system. PR systems are just like ported systems.... it is a resonant system that you tune to achieve output from both the box/PR (or port) and the driver. The advantages of the PR or ported system is that you can design them such that you get extended response, more output for a given driver excursion and lower distortion at the tuning frequency of either the port or PR.

Sealed box systems tend to have less extension, higher distortion and better transient response. You can EQ the bottom end in a sealed system to achieve improved low frequency extension but you need power to do so.

In terms of which is a better value. It depends on what you want. The WMD uses a superior driver in terms of excursion and linearity but it is a small sealed box system. The response is aimed at the frequency band where most of the music lies... not at sub-sonic frequencies. If you want more low-end extension and output at the expense of transient response, box size & cost I'd suggest looking at Kyle's PR version which would walk all over the VMPS at 20HZ. Another route if the box size is important is to get a WMD 15" and buy a Behringer Ultracurve to place on the rack. It would give you complete parametric EQ, room measurements & the ability to extend the low frequency extension of the WMD 15". That gives you the small box, good transient response & the low-end extension you’re looking for along with complete PEQ & measurements for your subwoofer. The Behringer can be had for about $300 so that is a pretty good solution.

ctviggen · « **Reply #8 on:** 10 Mar 2004, 06:42 pm »

Heck, even I don't know what I want! My current sub is fine for movies, so I'd like (potentially) a sub for music, but I've never heard a sub system that integrates well with speakers. I believe there is one out there, and people seem to like subs with their speakers, so I'm entertaining the idea of using a sub with my RM40s (which I don't have yet).

Kevin P · « **Reply #9 on:** 10 Mar 2004, 07:57 pm »

Integration is often more of an issue of the room than the subwoofer. With these frequencies the room has a HUGE impact and most of what people describe as "boomy" bass or trouble with integration is more of a room issue than a subwoofer one. You cannot solve room issues by buying a different driver or subwoofer (note: unless it includes some PEQ).

There are really only two solutions to room problmes. #1. Use room treatments & bass traps to help kill some of the nodes. #2. Use parametric EQ and measurement to decrease some of the peaks.

Neither of these are a complete solution. The best solution is to build a room from scratch with good dimensions and calculating the listening position as part of designing the best system response. Obviously this is way more than most people are going to be willing to do.

My advice is just get a good quality sub... stick it in the corner and plan on buying the Behringer for measuring and EQing the best that you can get in your exhisting room.

ctviggen · « **Reply #10 on:** 10 Mar 2004, 11:02 pm »

You might be right about the room, but I also feel that having one sub reduces imaging (stereo signals get stuck in one channel) and I can tell where the sub is if it's too far from the R/L speakers. I know that you're not supposed to be able to do that, but I could easily locate my sub and I couldn't stand it. With the WMD, it's small enough to put behind a speaker, so locating it might not be possible, but stereo imaging will still suffer. A graph of frequency response is always a nice thing to do, and I'll definitely get some traps also. My goal is to build a complete home theater/stereo room, although that won't be for a few years.

ctviggen · « **Reply #11 on:** 11 Mar 2004, 09:04 pm »

I do have to say that if I could lick the stereo and finding the sub issue, it would be great to have something to fill the bottom end while listening to music. Perhaps an eq is what I need?

klh · « **Reply #12 on:** 13 Mar 2004, 02:17 pm »

I am very interested in the WMD kit. I have a 18x12x9 room, and want to get two subs (one each at the midpoint of the front and rear walls of the room). I know that is overkill, but it gives a relatively flat response over a relatively large area with high SPLs is still not too expensive (perfect for HT). My debate, is augmenting them with the either the Marchand WM8 Bassis or the Behringer Ultracurve. I like what the Bassis does, but am wondering if it will give a flat enough resonse. I think that if I do proper room treatment... then the Bassis would work well. Do any of you have experience with either the Bassis or the Behringer? Does the Behringer expand low frequency response all that well? I do like the fact that with the Bassis the Q can be adjusted for HT or music... it kind of sounds too good to be true. One last question... if the sealed box is 4 cubic feet instead of 3, how would that affect the sound?

Thanks,

Krister