[trebejo]

I was wondering what you all thought about how much of excellent sound is due to which type of component: DAC, preamp, and amp.

I know, it's too general a question in lots of ways. Weakest link in the chain, synergy, and all that. I know.

STILL. Come on! if you had the best from Van Alstine sitting in front of you, which one do you smile at first, or most lovingly?

Is it the DAC, translating 0s and 1s into a fantastically faithful analog signal?

Is it the preamp, getting the best of both ends by solidly managing the flow of the sound?

Is it the amp, airily dishing out the watts like it is just plain easy?

Is it like 33%--33%--33% for ya? Or is there one component that clearly rises above the others in its influence?

A parallel question is: if your budding audiophile buddy needs to raise his system above mid-fi level one piece at a time (assume for the sake of argument that he already has a nice pair of speakers whose efficiency is suitable for whichever of Frank's amps suits your fancy; and also that his current set of components is competently midfi at each step). Which AVA component should he buy first, second, and third?

I want to hear YOUR answers, not mine, but I'll say one thing: for my buddy, I would steer him to whichever piece I thought would provide the most shocking improvement. As to which piece that would be... 

[oneinthepipe]

In order to answer the question/questions, knowing your buddy's existing components would be helpful.  If one of the existing components is much worse than the others, perhaps that component should be replaced first.

Nonethless,

Garbage in = garbage out.  Your buddy cannot have hi-fi sound without a hi-fi source.  Therefore, your buddy needs a DAC. 

However, a good analog output cannot be adequately amplified to be of use to the amplifier without a good pre-amp. The preamp is the heart of the system, IMO.  I cannot overstate the importance of a good active preamp.  The AVA preamps are superb.  Your buddy needs a preamp.

The amplifier will make the least difference, IMO, if the existing amplifier is moderately competent.

As an example, during a week last year, when my Insight preamp was with Frank for an upgrade, I was without a decent spare preamp.  For convenience, I tried the pre-out from a 20 year old NAD 3240PE integrated amp for a preamp in front of my Insight 440.  The sound was horrid.  I suffered for a week-and-a-half while my preamp was with Frank or in transit.  That week, I was having withdrawal symptoms, as indicated by my irritability.  When the preamp was delivered, I re-connected the preamp, and the improvement was extraordinary.  As an experiment, I connected the Insight+ preamp to the amplifier inputs of the NAD integrated amp, and while the sound was much worse than with the Insight 440 amplifier, and otherwise unlivable, the difference was more substantial with the NAD preamp outputs in front of the Insight 440.

If your buddy can only upgrade two components, initially, I think that he should acquire the DAC and preamp, and then, later, the amp.  If he can only upgrade one component, initially, then I think that he should acquire the preamp.  However, if his source is terrible, then he needs to improve the source before the preamp, because the preamp will only process the source. 

1) Speakers, 2) then source, 3) then preamp, and 4) then amp.  If the source is not too bad, 1) Speakers, 2) then preamp, 3) then source, and 4) then amp.  The reason that the speakers should be selected first, IMO, is that the speakers characteristics can be modified by the other components.  For example, if the speakers have a hot tweeter, perhaps a tube preamp will tame the tweeters a little.  I was listening with a pair of Linn speakers with very hot tweeters while I was waiting for my HT2-TL speakers, and I swapped my T8+ DAC for my Insight+ DAC because the T8 DAC has a little less gain at the top end, which made the sound from the Linn speakers much more livable.  And while this might not apply to your buddy because he has efficient speakers, I think that finding an amp that has the power requirements to drive specific speakers has fewer restrictions than selecting speakers, based upon their suitability of use with a listener's existing amp, that would otherwise be the best speakers for the listener in the listener's specific room.  Selecting a pair of speakers for use with a specific amp has some limiting factors, as does buying a car to use with tires that you already own.

[Big Red Machine]

I don't use a preamp so for me the DAC is most important and gives me every bit of the sound I hear followed closely by the topology of the amp.  All predicated on great speakers to start with.  I look at preamps as switchers only now and I'd rather not have any coloration from one if I needed it.  But gain may be needed in some configs.

[Wayner]

Here in my studio, I have 2 1/2 systems that I can mix and match anytime I wish to, with 3 pairs of speakers, 3 amplifiers, 2 preamps, 5 turntables and 2 FM HD tuners.

That said, may I make a point here that there is a synergy between components and it can be demonstrated. That is why I can't really understand how someone may not like a particular amp, as an example, because it has a relationship with the speaker (forward) and the preamp (backwards). Now, almost any combination of my equipment (mostly AVA) sounds great to me, but there is a perfect combination, which the systems are now configured with. It's really finding the right combination.

Wayner 

[martyo]

This is a pretty general question, so the answers will tend to be.

So generally speaking  , one would start closest to the source material. Without knowing your buddies mid-fi system, it really is too general to say which component. Now my own experience with moving from a mid-fi system (All Carver and no external DAC) started with a then 13 year old AVA preamp I bought on Ebay. It made a huge difference. A few months after that I started getting current AVA gear. I started with the preamp (T8), then the amp, (Ultra 550), and 6 months later the DAC. (Ultra) A few months later the speakers (Salk HT3) came. So my path was the opposite of my "generally speaking" answer. There are many variables such as money, the weakest link, and being able to listen while in the process of building a new set........

Is it the DAC, translating 0s and 1s into a fantastically faithful analog signal?

Is it the preamp, getting the best of both ends by solidly managing the flow of the sound?

Is it the amp, airily dishing out the watts like it is just plain easy?

Is it like 33%--33%--33% for ya? Or is there one component that clearly rises above the others in its influence?

As I get to hear more gear in my set, or a friends set with the HT3s, I would say my Double Ultra 550. As I've heard other amps in these systems (Spectra, Bryston, Bel-Canto, Moscode), it's very evident how much difference there is in amps. IMO, the more full-range the speakers are will have a real bearing on the amp.

[Zheeeem]

I was wondering what you all thought about how much of excellent sound is due to which type of component: DAC, preamp, and amp.

I know, it's too general a question in lots of ways. Weakest link in the chain, synergy, and all that. I know.

I think a bad preamp or power amp is a bit easier to overlook than a bad DAC.

When digital first came out it was nearly unlistenable.  Frank's early magnavox mods smoothed things out a lot, but it wasn't until he started making outboard DACs that the big improvement came.  On the other hand, his early Superfet/MOSFET stuff, while not SOTA, is still very pleasing and eminently listenable.

Having said this, I would note that some off-the-shelf CDP companies have made significant improvements to their DAC sections since the 1980s.  So the problem is not so, uhmmmm, glaring today as it once was.

[TjMV3]

I believe the intelligent audio enthusiasts' logical priorities should be....

1) Good recordings above all.

Just a thought........

I think it's important to have a system that plays not-so-great recordings....... even bad recordings,  well.  Or well enough for the music lover to completely enjoy the music.

Good recordings are great,  if it's music one loves and wants to hear.

Good recordings of music one dislikes or has no interest in.  is pointless.

I would imagine that most of us,  as I did,   grew (since younger kid years) loving music.    And we have a lot of music in our collection,   from many genras,   that we have loved for decades.  Music that we have a strong emotional and sentimental attatchment to. 

It's a mistake to buy a system which excludes music we dearly love,  based on quality of recording/production. 

A system that does due justice to well recorded material,  yet,  convey's the musical engagement of lesser recordings and does not render them unlistenable;  is a better option for people such as myself.

It comes down to each individual's personal goals for his/her system,  an individual's persoanl taste in music and personal preferences.

[bummrush]

It's a mistake to buy a system which excludes music we dearly love,  based on quality of recording/production. 
     Yes from above true,but two ex of classic rock recordings that were absolutely h.s. were Jethro Tull aqualung and the Who's next,these are just plain unlistenable,the Who album was fixed by getting the copy of from amazon Canada huge difference.,anybody have a idea of a good cd of aqualung?

[sueata1]

I have always found that upgrading the source component first (in this case the DAC) to be more of a night and day difference in your sound quality than with amps and pre-amps..I purchased the 1st DAC Frank made using his own sheetmetal (early nineties I think, built from the ground up) and that Sound my,,my that Sound,,  you could have knocked me down with a feather...
SOOooo anytime I think about upgrades I look to his latest source component first,,that Glorious DAC,,and then I move onto amps and pre's....

Happy Listening,,,
Mel

[turkey]

I feel that the speakers, recordings, and listening room govern the overall quality of the system to the greatest extent.

You often can't do anything about the quality of the recordings, so it comes down to speakers and listening room.

My advice to a friend looking to upgrade would then probably be to buy better speakers and apply some room treatment. Once that's done, then it's time to look at the rest of the system.

One thing I like about AVA equipment is that it's built for the long haul. The controls don't wear out or get noisy like a lot of other equipment, and you can keep on using it for a long time.

So you are then free to concentrate on speakers, listening room, and buying more CDs.