cymbal problem's

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 1870 times.

harryf

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 117
cymbal problem's
« on: 22 Jun 2010, 07:15 pm »
Ok after two months of trouble free service one of my chimes died.R7 and r8 burned up same on the other side.The 2.2k resistors.
So i rebuild the whole top on both as from the darkening clearcoat they were all overheating.
One now work's it did before though.The other just burnt up r 7 and r 8 again.They went from 2.2k to 500 meg in 1 min.So i figure it's the .01 cap's in the powersupply that went.I have them on order.Does anyone have any idea's?I replaced the diodes d's and transistor's on both too.Just in case.
I really don't want to fool around with these thing's anymore just fix it?
Another guy told me that he had the same problem that the cymbal's were very hot.He had to build a fan to blow on it.
Could it be a bias problem?
I getting bummed:(
One other question i never got answered.Do you have to fill the whole top of resisitor's?
From the pic i figured you have to.The whole mirrored pair got me confused.I just built both the same way and filled in all the spot's.Everything worked fine.They really sounded nice.
I know probably a stupid question.

harryf

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 117
Re: cymbal problem's
« Reply #1 on: 22 Jun 2010, 09:46 pm »
Ok i just was fooling around with my one good working cymbal.I checked the bias.Mine was 0.010.I figured this was right the first time i built them.I just kept adjusting them and found i could indeed get it to o.ooo v.
Is this right?The tubes are a bit brighter but not redplateing at all.
The same guy who said the use a fan on them said that the bias is super important.If it's wrong you will burn it up,as i seem to have.
I think this might of been the problem/As the internal bias knob was 12 o'clock now it's 4 o'clock.
Is this alot or a little.Am i barking up the wrong tree?
The sound is a bit muffled too which is worring me also.I'm going to double check the tranformer wireing and everything.I tested all the resistor's on the working amp and they spec out.
The yellow and black wire on the power transformer is where everything got hot.From
All the 3 watt resistor's were dicoloured underneith and the resistor's adjacent to them.Some still specd out good.Some like the 2.2k's needed replaceing.I redid all but the 220 ohm's.I'm afraid i might have to do them all over again?It's actually easier to cut and pull everything vs doing one or two resisitors.I think the .01 cap's might be part of the problem as their the only thing i haven replaced.The sovetek 5a4d's are cheap but i moved them in my other stuff and they seem to work ok.
I'm bummed:(

harryf

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 117
Re: cymbal problem's
« Reply #2 on: 23 Jun 2010, 12:07 am »
Here's another thought.Around the exact same timei had a problem with my cornet 2.It was humming after i switched chassis from a hammond to a lansing case.I messed around with it until i realised that most likely the .01 caps had let go.
So in my cymbal the same thing seems to have happened as that's the only reason why i can see i had a overheating problem.The .01 cap let go.
So either i had a current spike in my house that affected all the cap's the same.their all the same.
Or maybe in all my swaping i have been moveing a bad 5a4d around and it;s somehow killing the same part in different amps and preamps?In my cornet 2 orriginaly i had some smoke and burning around  the 5a4d sovtek tube socket.So maybe i caused alot of this problem?
Or i had the bias off on my cymbal's?I don't know.

harryf

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 117
Re: cymbal problem's
« Reply #3 on: 23 Jun 2010, 03:34 am »
I think i found my problem.One of the sovetek 5a4d's look different undernieth.Probably the smoke that came out the first time but i think i have been transfering this bad tube from unit to unit to try them out and it's burning stuff up.So that's my guess and i have the part's to rebuild all three.Expensive lession:(

poty

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 616
Re: cymbal problem's
« Reply #4 on: 23 Jun 2010, 08:00 pm »
First of all, I think you should look for something common in your devices. AND check power supply, grounding etc. It's rather strange you have such a big number of burning all the time! And where is your fuses? Why did they not blow? Do you really have grounding (the third) wire in you power outlet?
So i figure it's the .01 cap's in the powersupply that went.I have them on order.
To check - you do not have to buy another cap. You can easily remove it from the PCB and use the device without it. It may affect sound, but the device should work.
Another guy told me that he had the same problem that the cymbal's were very hot.He had to build a fan to blow on it.
Could it be a bias problem?
It could be a lot of sources for the problem, but since you have similar problem with almost all your devices, I think something is wrong with the usage or power outlet or something external to the devices.
One other question i never got answered.Do you have to fill the whole top of resisitor's?
Have you tried to read the manual?
"Not every spot on the circuit board is populated. Many parts are marked either “L” or “R” to indicate channel. Only those parts needed per channel are used, refer to schematic."

I checked the bias... 0.010. Is this right?
BIAS of what stage have you measured? If the last (power) stage - it is written on the scheme (1.2V to ground).
First stage BIAS also mentioned (4.5V cathode-ground)).
« Last Edit: 24 Jun 2010, 11:19 am by poty »

harryf

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 117
Re: cymbal problem's
« Reply #5 on: 24 Jun 2010, 04:26 am »
Ok i did see they are marked l and r.I also saw the schematic Which only shouw's one side built.I also saw that the pic i the schematic show's all positions populated.If i added too many i definetly see how this might have caused a big problem.
As far as haveing all the problem's i agree something funny is going on.
What i think is going on is i bought two 5a4d's from sovetek.I have been swaping them around trying to see if it's a tube.These two current tubes a killing stuff.I know because the old tube killed one of my amp's and my cornet 2.I tried a much older sovetek and it worked fine.I swaped in the other new tube that looks fine and it burned it up in about a minute.Both tubes are now out the door.
Bias in the manual says to set to 0 with a dvm but i will take your word and check the schematic.
I set it with the test port's.Exactly how the manual says.
I also see what you say about the grounding?The guy who wired my house was frankly a drunk.
I tried bi amping the cymbal for mid's and high's and the base with my bryston.The bryston hummed bad.I don't know why but it plays fine any other way.Maybe it was because of some weird grounding issue.
I think maybe it might be that i populated all the spot's?Who know's i'll try building it with just one side.The thing sounded amazing for 2 month's.I find it odd it would work at all iff i put in too many part's.If i did that would explain everything!

harryf

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 117
Re: cymbal problem's
« Reply #6 on: 24 Jun 2010, 04:32 am »
Ok i never looked at the photo online.I indeed did add too many part's.Problem solved I hope thank's!


poty

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 616
Re: cymbal problem's
« Reply #7 on: 24 Jun 2010, 11:29 am »
Bias in the manual says to set to 0 with a dvm but i will take your word and check the schematic.
I set it with the test port's.Exactly how the manual says.
I think you mean the following sentence from the manual?
"Connect a DVM across the test points labeled “M+” and “M-“. Adjust
BALANCE pot until a zero reading is achieved."

Then you are speaking not about the bias, but about balance! Bias is some voltage applied to a tube's grid to let the tube work at the linear part of its characteristics.

harryf

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 117
Re: cymbal problem's
« Reply #8 on: 24 Jun 2010, 08:47 pm »
Hi i took a real good look at the manual in b and w.Up close.I indeed made a huge mistake.I'm suprised it worked at all.I put 15 extra part's.Lol so i guess i found the problem:)I cut them all out just like the assembly photo so hope fully it will all turn out ok.

hagtech

Re: cymbal problem's
« Reply #9 on: 7 Jul 2010, 07:06 am »
Wow, I can't imagine R7 and R8 ever having a problem.  The have almost zero power on them.

jh