Computer Speaker Wish List.... need your input on design.

Kevin P · « **on:** 9 Mar 2004, 05:25 pm »

We are considering designing a 2.1 computer speaker system. I thought I'd use you guys as a sounding board for some of the ideas & system design choices.

Issue #1.

What is the maximum size you can live with for a computer speaker? We have a design for the monitors on the large side that is 6"Wx9"Hx8"D. The advantage is that we can get response down below 90-100HZ where most computer speakers are limited to about 150HZ in the monitors. For music it makes a big difference but going with a smaller satellite forces us to push the low-end response higher.

Issue #2.

What is the maximum size for the subwoofer? We are working on something that is shaped more like a mid-tower computer box (since most computer environments are designed to fit boxes that shape).

Issue #3.

How much would you be willing to pay for a high quality system? There seems to be plenty of products to choose from in the under $300 range. We would like to offer something that is truly well designed for audio. Most of the computer speakers suck for lack of a better word. To do it really well would require we push the $400-$500 price point for powered sub & powered monitors. Would you buy something at this price point if it were a great quality system?

Any and all input is appreciated!

Carlman · « **Reply #1 on:** 9 Mar 2004, 05:42 pm »

Take all of my comments with my viewpoint... I'm not into hearing my PC very much. I have no sounds enabled and the only music I listen to is some streaming stuff from Amazon and satellite radio. A pair of $35 Altec Lansing's fit the bill for me.

#1:
Small size is important to me. Anything bigger than a coffee mug's footprint is too big. I'd prefer to have them mounted on either side of the monitor but, that wouldn't work for my laptop. I don't care how tall they are as long as they don't look goofy. I would say 12" H x 4" x 4" would fine.

#2:
The sub box needs to be able to be positioned in at least 2 ways. If only 1 side can face in one direction, it makes it tougher to place and get the bass right. Size isn't as big a factor. I like your idea about the box shape. Can the sub then be 'mass-loaded' by putting your computer on top of it?

#3:
$35

See my 'disclaimer' at the top.

Kevin P · « **Reply #2 on:** 10 Mar 2004, 03:52 pm »

Come on guys.... give me some help!

Al Garay · « **Reply #3 on:** 10 Mar 2004, 05:33 pm »

Hi Kevin,

#1 Width is most important. I would try to stay closer to 4". Height less than 10". Depth Less than 6". Otherwise, I might as well build a small sealed speaker like the GR AV1 or Dillon Egos.

#2. Sub size should be smaller than 1cf. Dimensions are not critical. It could be taller with a small foot print. Or it could provide multiple functions such as a base for my printer or incorporate a power strip.

#3. Price needs to be less than building GR1 AV1 with a 8" sub from kits. So, $500 tops.

Personally, I'm satisfied with JBL on all my home computers. And if I really want good sound, I put on my Grado or AKG headphones.

Hope that helps,

Al

Thump553 · « **Reply #4 on:** 10 Mar 2004, 06:42 pm »

Hey Kevin: You need beta tester? I'm actively looking for speakers for work. I listen to music at low volumes almost all work day. Here's input on your issues:

Issue #1: satellite size-the smaller the better. Six inches wide is probably too much. The junk speakers I have now are 5"W x10"H x 6.5"D and they are too big. I'd like something half the height and 4" wide, ideally.

Issue #2: subwoofer size: pretty much irrelevant to me.

Issue #3: Price-if the speakers were top notch, and looked great (professional office) the $400-500 range is feasible.

Additional points:

1) Have a volume control easily accessible, or better still a remote. Maybe also have a quick drop 10 decibels button-so when calls come in you can quasi-mute the system, then pop it back up after the call.

2) Style and looks will be extremely important on the satellites.

3) Tripath amplifier would be real appealing.

4) Wireless satellites would be a huge selling point, and may allow bigger satellites. Possibly with wireless the sub could go under the desk hiding it and giving it a huge chamber to work in. Thick speaker wires would be a real turnoff.

Good luck.

Kevin P · « **Reply #5 on:** 11 Mar 2004, 04:31 pm »

Thump553:

Don't have a product to beta yet.

This is still in the idea stage. I agree with you on the dimensions though. About 4.5" would be the widest and we think we can do a 4.25" width if we use an injection molded cabinet. I'm thinking 4.5" wide, 8.75" tall by 6" deep. The Klipsch ProMedia monitors are about that same size and nobody seems to complain about their size. That gives us about 3L internal volume to work with.

We would have a volume control box with headphone jack, mute, source input. Wireless isn't going to be an option but the speaker wires should be no more of an issue than they are with all the other speakers on the market.

Al Garay: We would keep it well under $500 and the sub will be an XBL^2 driver with mucho excursion and low distortion.

Carlman: Your not the customer we are aiming for.

We don't want to make another under $100 speaker. There are a ton of them on the market and the big guys can thump us at that game. What we want to do is an audiophile grade speaker system using Adire's XBL^2 technology on all the drivers and occupying a price point that is accessable to the average computer user. I'm thinking shooting for a system price in the $300-$350 range would be attractive. Amplification would either be a digital amplifier we are looking at or a LM3875 Gain Clone for the monitors.

cjr888 · « **Reply #6 on:** 11 Mar 2004, 07:21 pm »

First, keep in mind your competition at the price point. The first thing that comes to mind is the Eminent Tech LFT-11's at $499 w/o amplifier, and $599 w/amplifier.

http://www.eminent-tech.com/main.html
http://www.eminent-tech.com/reviews.htm

They are highly reviewed from a PC, gaming, and music standpoint, so you have reviews from everyone from Computer Gaming World, to PC Magazine, to Positive Feedback.

I think this is important, especially if you are offering a 2.1 system. If its 2.1, you're not gearing this towards computer gamers, as they will be looking towards 5.1. The assumption is this is for music, music from the PC that's being used for work, play, etc, as someone using a PC as source is more headed towards consumer/audiophile equipment vs. 'computer speakers'.

So if you're going this route, I would either aim for something cheaper than the Eminent's as a value play, or ensure that they can either compete, or offer that much more for around the same price.

From a space saving perspective, you also have the Gallo Acoustics Micro's that technically could fit in the computer speaker area as well, but at a higher cost.

I'd say to try and aim for something between the crowded market of < $100 speakers and the Eminent's. Since you're doing 2.1, any press or reviews would most likely be from the audiophile crowd, and if so, you're going to get the instant comparison.

I'd also consider having an option that's easily wall mountable for those that don't have desk space, or if you have something small enough, something that can potentially flank the monitor regardless of size.

Another possibility around someone else's comments -- laptops. If you had a system that was small enough to travel with, and even had a mini-case for components, and included a good tiny amplifier w/headphone out, you might have a small market for those that travel and want a decent little _complete_ setup to run with. But here you would be competing with much of the headphone amplifier market as well.

You may actually want to solicit some comments over at head-fi.org. If you checkout the sources discussions, there are a lot of people using PC as source, whether 'all out' or for casual listening. Some are dedicated headphone people by preference, but a lot of people are in that situation because they have to maintain certain noise levels due to bedroom systems, offices, and dorm rooms. Possibly a lot of people where a full sized setup isn't feasible, and their other options are slim. You mind find further comments, and potentially enough additional interest to form the product based on your potential buyers.

Just an opinion....

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #7 on:** 11 Mar 2004, 09:34 pm »

Have a look at bluesky's studio monitors. Their prodesk monitors use 5.25" woofers and an 8" subwoofer, all in sealed enclosures. By all accounts, they sound pretty darned good, and they also cost $1k. With careful part selection, I'm sure you can make one just as good for much less. Either that or bluesky's profit margin is pretty hefty

Kevin P · « **Reply #8 on:** 13 Mar 2004, 05:30 pm »

Our product would be in the $300-$400 range with amplification. Frequency response on the monitors will be 90HZ-20K roughly -+2db. The sub would cover 30HZ-90HZ with the 30HZ representing an F3 number in a reasonably sized room measured from 1M. Dynamic headroom should be in the 105db region at the limits. In near field listening this should be MORE than enough headroom.

Our monitor speakers would be an injection-molded part designed to fit the desktop space. Similar in size to all the other computer monitors in a tasteful gray finish with a basic fabric/plastic grill cover (look like a Dell product). After doing some more modeling we are convinced we can do these numbers in a 4.5" wide, 7.5" tall and 5.5" deep enclosure. It would be a two-way system using our XBL^2 motor in a 4" driver and an as yet undecided tweeter.

In terms of control options we are thinking of a separate box that mounts under one of the monitor speakers. It would have separate volume controls (toggle the potentiometer with a button) for monitors, subwoofer and the surround sound speaker options (center & rear). It would offer a loudness button (defeat able), which is actually very important for computer use where you often need to listen at low volumes, mute feature, headphone output, and at least one input port for sources other than the computer. We are also considering a "gamer" button that boost all lows & highs like many of these computer speakers come stock (voiced to exaggerate lows & highs).

I like the idea of the power strip added to the subwoofer. I'll look at what it does to the cost.

Thanks for all the help guys. I'll keep you posted as to the progress.

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #9 on:** 13 Mar 2004, 07:14 pm »

Consumers like their systems to play extremely loud, so it would be very beneficial for you to beat out current leaders in this field like klipsch. It will help you grab another sector of the market.

witchdoctor · « **Reply #10 on:** 13 Mar 2004, 07:21 pm »

Hi Kevin,
My front end is a PC which I listen to exclusivley in my HT. If you would like to bring out speakers for the PC I would do two things:
1) Find out who dominates the market and why.
2) Buy a pair and discover what you can do better in terms of BOTH
quality and distribution.

If you were to ask me what companie produces the highest quality speaker for the PC market ( not the most dominant) I would look no further than what the audio engineers use as a monitor when they do mixing on their PC's.... Genelec.

witchdoctor · « **Reply #11 on:** 13 Mar 2004, 07:23 pm »

FYI

http://www.genelec.com/news/clearcut.php

Kevin P · « **Reply #12 on:** 17 Mar 2004, 05:10 pm »

The Genelec is really a different market than what we are aiming for.... Professional rather than consumer but we would like the same emphasis on performance.

We would like this to occupy the consumer space but offer far better performance than the traditional computer monitor. We have already bought and measured the competition and we understand how we can offer a TECHNICALLY better product. The challenge is how we can offer a complete package (looks, ergonomics, packaging, price & performance) that exceeds the competition.

Distribution is another topic.... a tough one that is a typical a chicken/egg type of problem. We have to have a product that is desirable to the consumer before distributors & OEMs are interested in a relationship.