[bmed]

It seems that there is a lot of buzz about new computer based systems as front-ends.  I don't have the experience or confidence that others on the circles have concerning ground-up construction of a hard drive type source.  Some, like me still have a lot of cd's on the wall.....well, OK, scattered on the floor.....that are still looking to squeeze that last little bit of "fidelity" out of the cd medium.  All this talk makes me feel like any investment I make in cd will just be wasted, especially at the cost of good redbook these days.

There aren't any new affordable dedicated transports, just some good older transports by companies no longer in existence or capable of servicing.  There are tons of CAL's and Theta's out there in the <$500 range.  How long will they last?  Who fixed them when they break?  I already have a supposedly good transport that's broke and doesn't seem to be able to be fixed.  This seems to have led to a popular process of modding existing platforms for use as transports.  There  are a number of cd/dvd/universal players being modded, some by companies with circles here on the AC.  Do modded players of today eclipse the dedicated transports of yesteryear?  

I had written in an earlier post about my current Pioneer PD75 squealing like pig.  It appears to me to be the motor spindle.  Believe me, I would love to have it repaired, but the local authorized servicing center takes your $20 estimate fee and proceeds to instill the sort of confidence in their ability to fix the problem, you get from screen doors on submarines.  "Saying--looky there, ya flip this one over like a recerd."  So I look to modded players and used transports and the like.  All similarly priced, all as equally distant in my ability to audition.  

I'm a cost concerned audiophile (oxymoron).  I want the best return of sound for my dollar.  My wife tells me I could pinch a booger out of Lincoln's nose I'm so tight some time.

You know, maybe that squealing isn't so bad.  If I listen at about 100db it fades into the soundstage.  Maybe I should just get a one-boxer?

I do have a dual deck tape player.......now wheres that Falco tape????


Just frustrated rambling.

Brad

[bubba966]

There aren't any new affordable dedicated transports, just some good older transports by companies no longer in existence or capable of servicing. There are tons of CAL's and Theta's out there in the <$500 range. How long will they last? Who fixed them when they break?

I do believe Theta is still around. I've not heard otherwise. So you should be able to get them to repair anything they've built...

[Carlman]

Welcome to the cutting edge niche of AudioCircle!  You'll find the people here are always looking for better ways of listening to music.  Thinking without constraints of what is accepted in the market opens a world of ideas.

Unfortunately, a lot of what you read about isn't available to be heard other than at the few places it's being developed.  I've found demo's and local gatherings to be most beneficial in my pursuit of the perfect sound... digital included.

I have a Museatex DAC and have heard that their transports are bulletproof and excellent sonically.  Who services the now defunct a/d/s or Museatex company's products?  John Wright does: www.museatex.com.  It takes some searching sometimes to find this stuff but, there's plenty of support out there... I don't see a lot of people on this board who cling to a lot of old stuff unless it's just perfect.

If you can stomach purchasing a Pioneer DV 656a and having it modded by Dan Wright... then buy the DAC of your choice... perhaps a Scott Nixon tube DAC or Ack DAC or whatnot for 400 or so... you'll end up paying under a grand for a complete digital rig that will rival most of what's available at the local shops for a couple thousand.  Will it perform better than a $4,500 BAT... or a Naim?  No.  But, it will best most things up to that point... and may be able to at least compare and say 'well... that extra 2% isn't worth the extra $2-3,k... '  

I myself am a budget-conscience audiophile concerned with the first 98% but, that last 2% is worth leaving alone to me and most others I know.  However, if someone finds that extra 2% for a few extra bucks and a chance to make something truly innovative, it's a double bonus!

[Hantra]

I myself am a budget-conscience audiophile concerned with the first 98%

The problem with that notion is, how the heck do we know what the 98% is?  I mean, a month ago, I HAD the 98% down pat, and was completely satisfied, looking for that last 2%.  I could not imagine my system getting 25%+ BETTER regardless of what I added.  But it did.  That's what's scary.  

As for the original post, I wouldn't spend anymore money on anything digital until I had a PC-based source.  If you can't build one, find someone who can build one for you.  This will take you to a level you had not previously thought possible.  I am sure after CES, there will be more buzz on this topic.  When more people are exposed. . .

L8r,

B

[Hantra]

Crappy connection caused multiple postings. . Sorry. .

[jackman]

There is a Nixon DAC on Madisound board for $125 or $150.  Looks like a good deal.

J

[byteme]

The problem with that notion is, how the heck do we know what the 98% is?  I mean, a month ago, I HAD the 98% down pat, and was completely satisfied, looking for that last 2%.  I could not imagine my system getting 25%+ BETTER regardless of what I added.  But it did.  That's what's scary.  

I think this is an issue for many of us.  What does that reference sound like in our own rooms?  Have we heard enough of our own and other equipment and setups to know?  In looking at Audiojerry's post on "reaching the pinnacle" he's found what he's after by auditioning tons of equipment and spending a lot of cash.  I think he's in the unique position of having been there and now peeling some back and trying to get "back" to the 98 or 95% or whatever.  Now, I'm not saying he CAN'T be surprised anymore by system changes but he's already been pretty damn high up that mountain.  Some of us are still buying climbing equipment and others have made it part way up the mountain and decided to camp right there.

[Carlman]

I agree there's a frame-of-reference problem inevitable... but, thriving for that last 2% in a conventional manner is something many people will find expensive and the results won't be worth it to someone like me.

However, you make a very valid point that if you don't try something new, how will you know where 98% lies?  I feel I'm getting very close to where I want to be in my system.  

Will the new computer-based thing take me to a new place (a 98% or more place)?  Maybe.  I have an extra PC lying around I could easily play with.  However, I don't know if I want to change how I listen to CD's.  

So, if you're willing to try new things, you can get farther than you ever thought possible.  If you're not, enjoy what you can get for cheap!

[Hantra]

In looking at Audiojerry's post on "reaching the pinnacle" he's found what he's after by auditioning tons of equipment and spending a lot of cash.

I've logged probably 8000 miles listening to gear, and made hundreds of purchases trying everything I could get my hands on.  I've listened to systems that are $1,000 up to $200,000.  

I am at a point where I am satisfied, and my system does exactly what I want it to do, and my system is easily the best I have heard.  But I'm not going to say I've reached the top.  I have been proven wrong each time I thought that.

[bmed]

I know what you mean Carlman.  I'm interested in that 98% as well.  I'm not a endless tweaker.  I haven't compared every spike/cone material.  

I've tried a few of the "bang for the buck" DACs.  I auditioned the dAck and didn't end up keeping it. My transport started acting up during that audition period.  Maybe it clouded my view a little.  Heard the PT P-3, CI VDA, various MSB modded DACs, CAL Alpha, etc....    Thought I'd go onebox, but nothing in the <$1000 range moves me that much.  I've considered the Nixon, but that brings me back to the transport issue.  Again, the feeling of wasting money really nags at me during my continuous research.  

I'd love to have a Naim CD5, but the lack of upgradeability (except for the ridiculously expensive PS) and dig out, keeps me from pulling the trigger.

I am really looking forward to the reports out of CES on the PC-based systems and the effect it will have toward it's advancement.   I will be purchasing a new home computer this spring.   My dream would be to max out the memory and storage on my new mac and use it as a music server as well.  Play lists popping up on that 21inch widescreen would be sweeeeeet.  That would be killing 2 birds with 1 stone.  In the meantime, I need some music without the high-pitched whine of my cd platter spinning.

Brad

[Hantra]

Maybe it clouded my view a little.

Probably not.  Considering it also sucked on the Ayre, which is an amazing transport.  

I've considered the Nixon, but that brings me back to the transport issue.

If you don't need a remote, you could get one of those souped up NEC CD-ROM drives on the cheap for about $15.  I know several people who used them with much success.  And if that doesn't work, I can make you a package deal.  

I think the PC has the pace of the Naim player, without the drawbacks.  It doesn't emphasize pace over anything else, it's just got great pace.

B

[JLM]

I haven't been around as much as most of you, but after visiting an audio shop or someone else's system I come home ASAP and listen to mine and usually find out that I like mine just fine, thank you.

Some of that is due to being used to how my system sounds, but as I only have $1,500 into my system and I'm comparing to systems ranging up to $60,000 (typically $7,500 to $15,000) I'm feeling pretty darn good.

And don't forget to factor in the room you're listening in.  Most folks barely treat the room beyond playing with speaker/listening locations.  Wifey and I will start construction on a new house this fall that will include a dedicated listening room/office for me.  As the space will already be there and I was going to have a room anyway the additional costs for sound insulation, exterior door with weather seals, and acoustical treatments will amount to roughly $500 total.  Building it to proper size and proportion is free.  Insuring a proper and consistent RT60 is nearly free.  Having all this and the speakers located in the room for the best sound will be priceless.

[Rob Babcock]

Man, JLM, I really envy you having the opportunity to create a dedicated listening room.  You really can do it fairly cheap, and as you say, building to "The Golden Ratio" won't add anything to the cost.  A bit of insulation and some room treatments (foam, DIY, and 8th Nerve are all pretty affordable options) and you'll have a great space to enjoy your music.

If you hadn't already thought of it, you might want to consider at least one or two dedicated electrical circuits for your gear.  This wouldn't add a lot to the new construction costs either, but it sure would be worth it.

[WerTicus]

what is the golden ratio for a listening room anyways?