[rayr0683]

Hello All,

             I am looking for some help with the best Loading Value , and Capacitance if necessary, for a Grado Signature TLZ.  I am not referring as much to the Wood Bodied Grado's, but more of the Joseph grado type models, especially the better ones, like the Signatures. I am using an Audio Research sp9 preamp, and the default load is 47K. I wanted to know the best possible Load value. And the capacitance confuses me, I have been told that its not important with Grado's. Please help me out on this? Thanks, Ray

[Dan Kolton]

I think you should keep the capacitance as low as possible, and the 47k resistance should be fine.  If you want to try something lower, shunt the phono input with an appropriate resistor, and listen.  Choose what sounds right to you in your system.

[rayr0683]

Hello Don,
              There is a guy on another forum, who is a Grado expert, or Grado Lover, whatever. He had told me before, regarding these Grado Signature TLZ's, that the VTF must be 1.62-1.65 Grams in order to get best sound. I was using 1.8 VTF, and he said that was too much. As for the Load and Capacitance, I cant remember what he said, but it was different than the default 47K......He also said that a lighter tonearm, not a 14 gram or so, as recommended bt Grado was better. He said that the Linn Akito was an excellent arm for the Grado Signatures.  But, its the Loading that I was more concerned about and capacitance. He has used Grado's for years, and had tried all various loads, and had come up with some certain values that were best.   Ray

I think you should keep the capacitance as low as possible, and the 47k resistance should be fine.  If you want to try something lower, shunt the phono input with an appropriate resistor, and listen.  Choose what sounds right to you in your system.

[neobop]

Ray,
The cartridge sounds best to me closer to 47K, then the 20K or so, that some prefer with many Grados.

You might need a slightly higher VTF with a heavier arm.

[rayr0683]

Hey Neo,
                Sorrry, I didn't get back to ya sooner, but I was  unable to get into AudioCircle.com....seems like there was a problem.  Im not sure, but for days, I was unable to access.  But Thanks for the load values. I could not remember that 20 K for the kife of me, but I do remember there was a Grado Load Value Preferrred, and it wasn't 47K, but I forgot what it was.....20K is what it was. I also remember that when you used my TLZ you found something different about Grado's with capacitance.  Thanks for your help. And welcome to wacko  Raul...the guy has a following of Stepford Wives over on A'Gon, that think he knows all.  And they will argue with you for him....Ray



Hquote author=neobop link=topic=73082.msg687951#msg687951 date=1256956663]
Ray,
The cartridge sounds best to me closer to 47K, then the 20K or so, that some prefer with many Grados.

You might need a slightly higher VTF with a heavier arm.
[/quote]

[neobop]

Yea, I couldn't get on here either.

If I remember correctly, I first used the cart at 20K. Then I switched to 32K, where it sounded better. I wound up around 42K. I didn't have all the values I now have, and I can't remember exactly.

There's no right and wrong with cartridge resistive loading. It's very system dependent. Raul loads every MM/MI at 100K. Maybe that sounds best in his system. Most cartridges designed for quad are supposed to be loaded, originally, at 100K.

I don't think Raul is a wacko. His results are very different from mine on some cartridges. But I've never heard his system. One other thing, were you guys talking about the same Grado? He mentioned something about the Amber Tribute.

[rayr0683]

Hey Frank,
                  Raul is a Double Talker. This is dtuff that was carried over from Audiogon. It was me and another guy, named Lew that both have Grado TLZ cartridges. Raul budded in, and said he had, or borrowed a Grado Amber, which he claims is better than our TLZ cartridges, but only sold in Australia, and nowhere in the USA.

             He also did not move an inch on the 100K loading, till he somehow got into the forum that we were all in the other night. Same with the LPGear AT Stylus, he stated it was a counterfeit, made for LPGear, and not a real AT, which I proved otherwise.

                 I may not be a genius, but I am aware of different Loading, and different systems, etc...thats one thing that by now I am clear on. However, it still helps, to get a good starting point, for say a Grado, by someone like BaMorin...that messes and tweaks Grado's consistently, and has done so for years. And I knew that value was different than 47K...just was not sure what it was.  Raul has a huge following at Gon, of newbies, that ask his advice for MM/MI carts, kinda like I used to ask your opinions for helping me out with my ZETA, etc...He is not a wacko, quite the opposite, he knows just how to play the piano, so that he doesn't look bad on conflicting comments he stated. Ray

Yea, I couldn't get on here either.

If I remember correctly, I first used the cart at 20K. Then I switched to 32K, where it sounded better. I wound up around 42K. I didn't have all the values I now have, and I can't remember exactly.

There's no right and wrong with cartridge resistive loading. It's very system dependent. Raul loads every MM/MI at 100K. Maybe that sounds best in his system. Most cartridges designed for quad are supposed to be loaded, originally, at 100K.

I don't think Raul is a wacko. His results are very different from mine on some cartridges. But I've never heard his system. One other thing, were you guys talking about the same Grado? He mentioned something about the Amber Tribute.

[rayr0683]

Yo Frank,
                  How quickly your forgetting....This is the same Raul, that back in June, or so... when I was on a kick with my new Shure V15VMR-LE cartridge...and several guys here in the VE were saying that the Ortofon 2M Black has surpassed it in terms of tracking ability, etc....So, I referred to this guy Raul from AGon, who I thought was a MM/MI expert, and had done extensive testing on these vintage cartridges would somehow show that my Shure was still a strong contender. Then You replied to the thread, and said you read about him on A'Gon, and he loads everything at 100K/100pf, so more or less was showing that he was not quite the authority I was thinking he was. Even your most recent post here, before Raul chimed in, was a LOL, look back at one of your first posts about him. I now dont understand how your giving him credit as if he has proven something. Im telling you, he toots his own horn, and only now, that me, and a couple of other guys have confronted him regarding his loading, he is making small exceptions. If not for that, he'd still be touting the proper and best load for MM/MI carts as 100K/100pf....and that even at the cost of High Dollar MC Cartridges, they cannot approach the sonics of MM/MI cartridges, but maybe some day, down the road, they may find a way to equal the MM/MI cartridge. And that is referring to Koetsu, Zyx, Benz, etc...       Why the change of heart here?  Ray                 

Hey Frank,
                  Raul is a Double Talker. This is dtuff that was carried over from Audiogon. It was me and another guy, named Lew that both have Grado TLZ cartridges. Raul budded in, and said he had, or borrowed a Grado Amber, which he claims is better than our TLZ cartridges, but only sold in Australia, and nowhere in the USA.

             He also did not move an inch on the 100K loading, till he somehow got into the forum that we were all in the other night. Same with the LPGear AT Stylus, he stated it was a counterfeit, made for LPGear, and not a real AT, which I proved otherwise.

                 I may not be a genius, but I am aware of different Loading, and different systems, etc...thats one thing that by now I am clear on. However, it still helps, to get a good starting point, for say a Grado, by someone like BaMorin...that messes and tweaks Grado's consistently, and has done so for years. And I knew that value was different than 47K...just was not sure what it was.  Raul has a huge following at Gon, of newbies, that ask his advice for MM/MI carts, kinda like I used to ask your opinions for helping me out with my ZETA, etc...He is not a wacko, quite the opposite, he knows just how to play the piano, so that he doesn't look bad on conflicting comments he stated. Ray

Yea, I couldn't get on here either.

If I remember correctly, I first used the cart at 20K. Then I switched to 32K, where it sounded better. I wound up around 42K. I didn't have all the values I now have, and I can't remember exactly.

There's no right and wrong with cartridge resistive loading. It's very system dependent. Raul loads every MM/MI at 100K. Maybe that sounds best in his system. Most cartridges designed for quad are supposed to be loaded, originally, at 100K.

I don't think Raul is a wacko. His results are very different from mine on some cartridges. But I've never heard his system. One other thing, were you guys talking about the same Grado? He mentioned something about the Amber Tribute.

[neobop]

Ray,
I didn't read any of those threads on Audiogon, just Raul's initial post about MM/MIs. Maybe a Nagaoka MP-50 sounds OK at 100K, I don't know. I can't relate to using most of the others on his list at 100K or even 75K. If you plotted the response of those cartridges at 100K, 100pF, the high end would probably go off the paper. I am curious about his system - electronics and speakers.

I also wasn't aware of your discussing the TLZ, and his butting in. You know, you could just tell him to butt out. As I said previously, there's no right or wrong here. It's more like whatever works for you. Life's too short.
Frank