The DAYTON 15" Titanic III sub kit is on the way!

IanATC · « **on:** 29 Dec 2003, 03:29 pm »

My quandry for a potent sub that is sealed has been solved. I have ordered the parts express.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=300-764&ctab=1

It is sealed, 15". the driver is a 15" dayton clone of the excellent NHT-1259a. I intend to really work this kit internally as needed for maximum quality. It has a 1000w amp with it.

mgalusha · « **Reply #1 on:** 29 Dec 2003, 03:56 pm »

Ian,

Keep us posted on how this works out. My oldest step son needs a good sealed sub and the Dayton packages look pretty good for his needs.

Mike G.

IanATC · « **Reply #2 on:** 29 Dec 2003, 04:17 pm »

I shall post step-by-step pics of the assembly and a review. I have my fingers crossed. The specs on the driver and price for the kit seem unbeatable. There is a sealed Audax kit here, but it is 12" and too soft and slow for me. It could not compete with the NHT 1259.

I know for a fact that the 12" NHT-1259a sealed kit [available from a couple diy suppliers] is excellent. It just did not quite get the envelope I was looking for at the bottom. I thought maybe 2 of them or: what if NHT had a 15" driver of this quality...and a mate of mine mentioned the Dayton.

Adire, ACI Titan and Peerless XLS are supposed to be great also.

I tend to avoid our own British subs. The good ones [ATC, PMC] are unholy expensive! Imagine paying $7k or more for a sub!! no thanks.

BTW: the 1000w amp is a tripath design class T.

mgalusha · « **Reply #3 on:** 29 Dec 2003, 05:53 pm »

How painful is shipping to the UK? The kit must weigh quite a bit.

IanATC · « **Reply #4 on:** 29 Dec 2003, 06:17 pm »

$249 so that's under $1k shipped.

It's not bad really, via UPS. two packages x 45lbs each.

It's all perspective:

There is virtually *NOTHING* I can buy in the UK commercially for anywhere near the Dayton's kit price.

My options were some tiny or economy 12" boom box.

Shipping doesn't kill me compared to what I would pay for a very potent new sub here which would be 3 or 4 times the price of the Dayton kit's price.

Let me sum that up: that is about 550 Uk pounds. For 550UKP, that will buy you a very old used sub, or a new HT sub, or very small sub. for a potent sub in the UK, (Ignore REL please for performance reasons) start about 1.5 2k or 2700 USD+. And that would be a decent 12" sub like velodyne DD series.

mgalusha · « **Reply #5 on:** 29 Dec 2003, 06:23 pm »

I understand. Even with the shipping it seems your best option. I was mainly curious as to how much something heavy cost to ship across the Atlantic.

Looking forward to your reports.

mike g

Kevin P · « **Reply #6 on:** 29 Dec 2003, 07:02 pm »

All of these PE drivers offer a lot of value for the money. They are a traditional underhung VC design but they have plenty of excursion and an attractive price. You should get good results.

IanATC · « **Reply #7 on:** 29 Dec 2003, 07:39 pm »

You know, I *ALMOST* bought that ADIRE Rava or the NHT 1259a. I would have ended up buying two. I know both are excellent. At the end of the day, I wanted a 15" sealed kit. I did look at DIYCABLES a lot until I went to the dayton.

elektratig · « **Reply #8 on:** 30 Dec 2003, 12:46 am »

Ian,

It sounds like you are planning to mod the design rather than build it as is. What do you have in mind?

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TheChairGuy · « **Reply #9 on:** 30 Dec 2003, 05:29 am »

Hey Ian,

Good luck on that sub...I looked long and hard at the Dayton stuff and it was always appealling. I ended up buying two passive N.E.A.R. Boom-2 subs on ebay cheap. They are wonderfully fast...and I use garbage amp on them (old Superphon).

I recently went thru their catalog as I placed an order last week and I saw that plate amp...but it ain't Class T. Class G, it is - 1000 watts it be, tho.

From the Parts Express website:

Part Number:300-808
1000W SUBWOOFER AMPLIFIER This new subwoofer amplifier is based on state-of-the-art Class G circuit topology that offers the proven high power, high fidelity characteristics of a Class AB amplifier without any instability problems of other high-efficiency amplifier designs.

$398.80 EA

IanATC · « **Reply #10 on:** 30 Dec 2003, 06:06 am »

I plan to add some internal bracing. I also intend to use some thick [probably asphault] construction tiles glued inside. These should be thick, heavy and dense to seriously reduce cabinet vibe.

IIRC: Muse made 2 subs: model 18: a dual 10" /225 wpc about $2900 circa 1991 and a model 22: 15" (not 18"). I think this was supposed to have had a class a amp. I could be mistaken, but I remember some highend sub touting class A amplification.

WerTicus · « **Reply #11 on:** 30 Dec 2003, 11:05 am »

wow high power class a for a sub.. jeebus

IanATC · « **Reply #12 on:** 31 Dec 2003, 06:12 am »

Quote from: TheChairGuy

Hey Ian,

From the Parts Express website:

Part Number:300-808
1000W SUBWOOFER AMPLIFIER This new ...

I saw that, and at first I was sure that was the plate amp included. I called the tech support, and they claimed it was class "T" not "G." Referring of course to the plate amp included with the MKIII kit. This product is so new and has been revised, so most of the techs can only read the information off the screen, they really didn't know much for sure. I went through 3 of them before they could tell me if it was a sealed or ported box. I bet YOU are correct, because that catalog description refers direcly to the back CEMF of the MKIII...you know, in the next paragraph, I made the CEMF statement ahead of reading about that part #. (twilight zone theme plays...)

I understand that earlier versions of this kit had much lower power (like 250 w) amps with them that tippy-toed to fight the CEMF/impedence curve that 15" was capable of.

It is amazing, but to REALLY get DEEP 1st octave bass, you do need to move lots of air through big displacement, decent xmax, and LOT upon LOTS of high current power. a 250 watt plate amp IMO, lacks the storage capacity and drive of a good outboard amp. Much like a car amp, they will not have the same punch without added capacitance. For a 10 or 12" sub, I'd start with 500 watts for a sealed box. This plate amp actually has a a pair of storage caps... very cool, that is a confidence builder!

dayneger · « **Reply #13 on:** 31 Dec 2003, 06:39 am »

Just out of curiousity, why did you decide on this (impressive-looking) PE kit in comparison with the DIY Cable WMD (Weapon of Mass Destruction), which is a relatively small sealed box with the 15" Tumult and a 1000W class D amp?

I can't really use that kind of mind-blowing power, so I've decided to go the small stereo sub route, mostly likely two of the DIY Cable mini WMD's, based on a new Adire 10" driver.

Cheers,

Dayne

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #14 on:** 31 Dec 2003, 06:42 am »

My eyes almost popped out when I saw that amp in my Parts Express mail flyer. I really wish I had a use for a 1K Watt plate amp!

I'll be following your progress with much interest.

IanATC · « **Reply #15 on:** 31 Dec 2003, 06:53 am »

Quote from: dayneger

Just out of curiousity, why did you decide on this (impressive-looking) PE kit in comparison with the DIY Cable WMD (Weapon of Mass Destruction), which is a relatively small sealed box with the 15" Tumult and a 1000W class D amp?

I can't really use that kind of mind-blowing power, so I've decided to go the small stereo sub route, mostly likely two of the DIY Cable mini WMD's, based on a new Adire 10" driver.

Cheers,

Dayne

Well, I looked through that too fast. I saw the 12" and moved on. I missed the WMD driver. i must have been drowsy

I think the other factor was weight. The dayton kit ships in 2 x 50lb parcels. The Dayton is less expensive. I am sure the DIY cable kit is great. I talked to 3 owners of the dayton kits before deciding. Maybe the DIYcables system is superior- but I am going to give this a go. I think it will work well. I was able to get LOTS of web and personal feedback...call them Dayton success stories.

I intend to do some extra cross-bracing, without messing up the Q of the box.

I am not sure "mind blowing" power is the goal. Some chap suggested I look into an 18" driver system. That would NOT work. I am sure the output would be mind and lease blowing. Again, I am not seeking to pressurize my room to 4 atmospheres.

I chose the 15" kit to move air effortlessly for any kind of music and to convey that sense of bigness. I do not like excess bass boom or an overwhelming bass ratio. What I am after here is a powerful, effortless albiet tame system. I have been put off recently by 12" systems, maybe because the majority of British made subs (under $3,000 USD) do not have much of an xmax, nor do they really plumb the depths. They are musical, but if you want real depth, you are going to shell out between $6- $10k USD for an ATC or a PMC sub. REL are well done, and mate well musically, but lack a certain testicular fortitude down deep.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #16 on:** 31 Dec 2003, 03:20 pm »

Ian, I think you're well on your way to gaining an extra couple penile inches with this project!!

I got a recent shipment from Parts Express and I was reading 'The Loudspeaker Design Cookbook' from Vance Dickason last night. It says their sub drivers are made by an outfit called ANA Laboratories in California and are quite good value (actually says 'great' 10" woofer).

He designed the 10" Titantic Powered Subwoofer Kit, so he may be a bit biased.....but I think he's got enough credentials to state it as he sees it by now.

Keep us abreast of your project - sounds very promising.

FYI - down the line if you want digital amplification, I see that Kevin at DIYCable offers the mighty interesting Keiga Class D plate amp..tho it would run your 'little' project another $400 per pair to fit them on. Check these specs out (30 friggin' pounds!):

DESCRIPTION
Keiga 1000W Class D Plate amplifier which we use in our finished Weapon of Mass Destruction subwoofer. Unlike many plate amplifiers on the market this design deliverys a true 1000W RMS of output. There is just no way around having lots of power without the power supply to back it up. This beast weights in at a true 30lbs due to the massive transformer. Look sceptically upon amps without the girth and weight of this beast who claim big power.

Features include your typical range of plate amplifier functions. Power output specs.... an outstanding 1000W @ 4ohms at .1% THD and 1200W at 10%THD. Variable 2nd order electrical crossover from 50HZ-100HZ with phase inversion switch and a 5db of gain switchable bass boost centered at 25HZ. IEC power input with auto-on upon signal and switchable on/off control. High level and low level inputs/outputs. Size and weight: 305x305x115mm 12"x12"x4.5" 13.5 kg (30lbs amp alone & 35lb shipping weight).

IanATC · « **Reply #17 on:** 31 Dec 2003, 03:35 pm »

Quote from: TheChairGuy

Ian, I think you're well on your way to gaining an extra couple penile inches with this project!!

I got a recent shipment from Parts Express and I was reading 'The Loudspeaker Design Cookbook' from Vance Dickason last night. It says their sub drivers are made by an outfit called ANA Laboratories in California and are quite good value (actually says 'great' 10" woofer).

He designed the 10" Titantic Powered Subwoofer Kit, so he may be a bit biased.....but I think he's got enough credentials to sta ...

I read a GLOWING review of the Dickason designed 10" sub kit. It was apperently tuneful, and potent to 28hz. I had seen an old copy of the Loudspeaker Design Cookbook (Vol II?). I'd like to order the newest version.

His information is why I find it amazing that basic math and good parts will allow you to DIY something superior to commerical products costing a multiple more. I mean really, give the markup, it's no mystery why a 3 way floorstander has rubbish parts. I saw the inside of some Mission speakers (probably $1,500 a pair) cheeeeeep!

If I had not purchased these ATC speakers, I'd have opted for a sealed Scan-speak revelator based kit. Basicially, an MTM in a sealed box of about 1 foot.

I only lack training as a carpenter to make nice boxes.

I shall see about taking classes for that.

In the meantime...on with my penile extension...err sub project...

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #18 on:** 31 Dec 2003, 07:52 pm »

Quote from: IanATC

I read a GLOWING review of the Dickason designed 10" sub kit. It was apperently tuneful, and potent to 28hz. I had seen an old copy of the Loudspeaker Design Cookbook (Vol II?). I'd like to order the newest version.

His information is why I find it amazing that basic math and good parts will allow you to DIY something superior to commerical products costing a multiple more. I mean really, give the markup, it's no mystery why a 3 way floorstander has rubbish parts. I saw the inside of some Missio ...

Yeah, at $349.00 and a couple hours work this is probably hard to beat for excellent bass on the cheap. Even with $100.00 ship rates or so to the UK.

It's a great book (Volume VI now)..chock full of stuff I won't ever understand...but it's nice to have around for the things I can comprehend. I read something about 'fill' (internal damping) that lit my fuse for a new mini project tomorrow.

Happy New Year UK!..you're a lot closer to the New Year than us.

IanATC · « **Reply #19 on:** 31 Dec 2003, 08:09 pm »

Quote from: TheChairGuy

Yeah, at $349.00 and a couple hours work this is probably hard to beat for excellent bass on the cheap. Even with $100.00 ship rates or so to the UK.

It's a great book (Volume VI now)..chock full of stuff I won't ever understand...but it's nice to have around for the things I can comprehend. I read something about 'fill' (internal damping) that lit my fuse for a new mini project tomorrow.

Happy New Year UK!..you're a lot closer to the New Year than us.

As I posted before, I have ordered the two Vance Dickson books: "loudspeaker design cookbook v. VI" and his speaker building book [four 2 way designs] I can comprehend the design dynamics, it's all based on ambition for me. It has really underscored the fact that the very best REL sub can be thrashed horribly for much less money. The very idea that a $2k speaker has such cheap parts with a small xmax can tell you, the bass cannot hope to match a DIY sub.

Happy new beer! I mean year!
Cheers!