Distortion in lower end or the spectrum

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guest48077

  • Guest
Distortion in lower end or the spectrum
« on: 8 May 2009, 12:59 am »
Hi,

I am fairly new to this great hobby of ours and running WHAT I CALL a budget system. Everything was sounding great until yesterday. I Put on Hawks and Doves by  Neil Young (picked it up used at a local store). In the first track I noticed  :icon_twisted:Distortion :icon_twisted: in the lower end of the audio spectrum within the higher amplitudes :evil: At first I though it may be this USED album....soon realized after playing others that it is withing my Table (I hope). the table and arm have been setup correctly for about 1 year. It came with the azimuth already set and the Vertical Arm Adjustment already set. When the needle is on the record it (the needle) is not really in the center or the Cart....is this the issue? Any Thoughs. Picks in my GALLERY BELOW. Thanks in advance for any replys

twitch54

Re: Distortion in lower end or the spectrum
« Reply #1 on: 8 May 2009, 01:33 am »
Hi,

When the needle is on the record it (the needle) is not really in the center or the Cart....is this the issue?


if you're speaking of the relationship of the cantalever to the body (not being parallel), then yes i'd say there is an issue. possibly a suspension issue within cartridge mag/motor assembly or overly out of adj anti-skate ??

JackD201

Re: Distortion in lower end or the spectrum
« Reply #2 on: 8 May 2009, 02:02 am »
Time for some realignment I think. Pay attention to the offset angle of the cantilever. It isn't enough for the stylus to be on the points the cantilever has to be in line with the grids too. If the cantilever gets misaligned during play but not when static it is most likely an anti skate problem. Cantilever pointing away from the spindle means there's not enough of it and pointing towards it means way too much. Good luck!

guest48077

  • Guest
Re: Distortion in lower end or the spectrum
« Reply #3 on: 8 May 2009, 08:52 am »
Some more info: This distortion comes out of both speakers, (not nessasarly at the same time or amount. I also changed cables with no luck. Will look into some realignment today after work.  Also .......anyone familiar with this intro table (DEBUT III by Project audio)?

Thanks

guest48077

  • Guest
Re: Distortion in lower end or the spectrum
« Reply #4 on: 8 May 2009, 09:13 am »
Time for some realignment I think. Pay attention to the offset angle of the cantilever. It isn't enough for the stylus to be on the points the cantilever has to be in line with the grids too. If the cantilever gets misaligned during play but not when static it is most likely an anti skate problem. Cantilever pointing away from the spindle means there's not enough of it and pointing towards it means way too much. Good luck!

Thanks JackD201

I will be looking into this. Right now the cantilever is pointing toward the center of the record(only when the needle is dropped. As I said before the the anti skating has stayed the same for a year or so with no issues, and I followed Projects Audio guidelines for that. Is it just lossening the screws on the Cart and shifting until it right for adjustment?   

twitch54

Re: Distortion in lower end or the spectrum
« Reply #5 on: 8 May 2009, 02:20 pm »
Right now the cantilever is pointing toward the center of the record(only when the needle is dropped.

Did you not read my first post ???? you have just answered your own question ! Cantilever is shot !! Tracking force, anti-skate has apparently done it in or some other mechanical malfunction with your arm ....bearing assembly, etc.

JackD201

Re: Distortion in lower end or the spectrum
« Reply #6 on: 8 May 2009, 04:52 pm »
Time for some realignment I think. Pay attention to the offset angle of the cantilever. It isn't enough for the stylus to be on the points the cantilever has to be in line with the grids too. If the cantilever gets misaligned during play but not when static it is most likely an anti skate problem. Cantilever pointing away from the spindle means there's not enough of it and pointing towards it means way too much. Good luck!

Thanks JackD201

I will be looking into this. Right now the cantilever is pointing toward the center of the record(only when the needle is dropped. As I said before the the anti skating has stayed the same for a year or so with no issues, and I followed Projects Audio guidelines for that. Is it just lossening the screws on the Cart and shifting until it right for adjustment?   

Hi Undertow,

cartridge suspensions break-in or even just break over time just as twitch says. There still may be a possibility that your cart isn't shot. I'm guessing this because it still manages to track. If your suspension has softened you'll need less anti-skate. You may also need less tracking force as compared to when it was new. You can first lighten it a bit into the lower half of your carts operating range and then adjust the anti-skate so when the record and stylus make contact the cantilever won't sway in one direction or the other. If you're feeling brave, find a blank sided LP. The arm should stay in the same place when centered but it's okay too to have it meander a bit inward.

If you've got it steady but the cantilever is still pointing inward then it's time to get the handy protractor out. If there is still some distortion after alignment, take a look at your rake angle. Grab a magnifying glass and look at your stylus from the right side. It should be standing straight up or tilted forward. If it is tilted backwards as though the cantilever is plowing the stylus into the record, then that means the now very soft suspension needs some relief. Adjust your VTA so that the stylus sits back up again.

If all this fails then perhaps there really may be some damage to your cantilever if you're using an MM cart or worse a permanent misalignment within the gap if you're using an MC cart. I hope this isn't the case. I would exhaust all possibilities first though.

Let me know how things go. A couple of pictures would help the diagnosis too.  :)

guest48077

  • Guest
Re: Distortion in lower end or the spectrum
« Reply #7 on: 10 May 2009, 11:56 pm »
Quote
If your suspension has softened you'll need less anti-skate. You may also need less tracking force as compared to when it was new. You can first lighten it a bit into the lower half of your carts operating range and then adjust the anti-skate so when the record and stylus make contact the cantilever won't sway in one direction or the other. If you're feeling brave, find a blank sided LP. The arm should stay in the same place when centered but it's okay too to have it meander a bit inward.

If you've got it steady but the cantilever is still pointing inward then it's time to get the handy protractor out. If there is still some distortion after alignment, take a look at your rake angle. Grab a magnifying glass and look at your stylus from the right side. It should be standing straight up or tilted forward. If it is tilted backwards as though the cantilever is plowing the stylus into the record, then that means the now very soft suspension needs some relief. Adjust your VTA so that the stylus sits back up again.

If all this fails then perhaps there really may be some damage to your cantilever if you're using an MM cart or worse a permanent misalignment within the gap if you're using an MC cart. I hope this isn't the case. I would exhaust all possibilities first though.

Well I tried all of the above. I will try all of this again to make sure. I am pretty sure The Tone arm on the Debute III does not have VTA so that option is out of the question. ...............I have been playing records and they sound fine, I am now thinking that this may be just that Neil young record.......or it is a "Dynamic" Problem and the issue may only happen with higher dynamics within songs. I think I will just spin some records and try to figure this out. I did however realign my Cart (it was out of wack) but the sound was still there.

Will post with further results/issues

I apprieciate the responses


guest48077

  • Guest
Re: Distortion in lower end or the spectrum
« Reply #8 on: 12 May 2009, 03:51 pm »
Well I have done some listening. I have come to the conclusion (though not positive yet) that my Needle is worn out. seems like when there is a lot of Volume in the track or a lot of dynamics I get distortion in ALL frequencies. I have had and been using the needle and Cart for about 1 year and 3 months. I do play record a fair amount, pretty much everyday for an album or so. I was looking again at the needle and it doesn't seem to be pointing inward, I was mistaken at first
So help me out.........if I exhausted all the above tips do you think it means my CART needs to be replaced...........what is the average hours (life) on a lower end CART as mine.

Wayner

Re: Distortion in lower end or the spectrum
« Reply #9 on: 12 May 2009, 04:23 pm »
500 hours.

W

guest48077

  • Guest
Re: Distortion in lower end or the spectrum
« Reply #10 on: 12 May 2009, 04:36 pm »
500 hours.

W

Thanks for the reply, It has definatly not been 500 hours. I have been monitoring playback times in foobar as I am burning in my TVC. With Lps I should only be around 200 (if that) or so. I do skip days where I do not play any Vinyl. How would a needle be damaged. My issue just started ouyt of the blue??

Wayner

Re: Distortion in lower end or the spectrum
« Reply #11 on: 12 May 2009, 07:34 pm »
Have you ever  had a mishap with the stylus, like dropping it too hard or side-slapping it? I had trouble with a cart  one day and took it out to find most of the stylus diamond was gone. Then I remembered it fell the day before. I didn't think it did any damage until the next days' problems showed up.  Just a thought.

Wayner  :D

Hap

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 38
Re: Distortion in lower end or the spectrum
« Reply #12 on: 13 May 2009, 03:26 pm »
undertowogt,
Just a simple thought here; check to see that your stylus is clean and there are no dust particles or grunge stuck up the cantilever or mucking up the suspension.

guest48077

  • Guest
Re: Distortion in lower end or the spectrum
« Reply #13 on: 21 May 2009, 04:40 am »
Ok ............I have came to the conclusion my Needle is F*&%ed. I am now starting the process of researching a new one. Now this could prove to be tricky as I do not have a decent phono preamp yet. I plan to get a Bottlehead Seduction Phono Preamplifier in the near future when my budget allows.

Been looking at the Ortofon 2M Red.....Review say it is pretty good and it is within my budget (150$ range). Anyone else have suggestions for a budget Cart or should I just replace the needle on my Ortofon OM 5E which is about 50 bucks. I am leaning towards spent a bit more to get a better CART. Any though.......suggestions

Thanks

Wayner

Re: Distortion in lower end or the spectrum
« Reply #14 on: 21 May 2009, 11:15 am »
Audio Technica AT440MLa.

Wayner

guest48077

  • Guest
Re: Distortion in lower end or the spectrum
« Reply #15 on: 21 May 2009, 01:36 pm »
Audio Technica AT440MLa.

Wayner

Thanks for the suggestion, Doing research on it now.
Another note. My musical taste are mainly within the ROCk genre...with a bit of classical