[rumatt]

SHORT VERSION: 

I've read all about the various Empirical Audio products, and the options that exist.  My question is:  which Empirical Audio product will equal or better the jitter levels of a mid-level DVD/CD player?   

LONG VERSION:

I do PC audio using a the standard setup:
 - Flac ripped via EAC
 - Foobar 2000 on laptop
 - ASIO4ALL tested to be bit-perfect via DTS test
 - HagUSB or Trends UD-10
 - DAC: VDA-2 or Stello DA100

I did an experiment where I compared a) HagUSB, b) Trends, c) the coax out from my Oppo DV-970 DVD player,  all feeding the VDA-2.  The HagUSB and Trends were pretty close (with the possible edge going to the HagUSB), but what shocked me is that the Oppo definitely sounded better than both of them.      So my questions are:

1) Is it expected that the jitter levels on a mid-level DVD/CD player would outperform the HagUSB/Trends, or do you think it suggests a problem on the PC setup?

2) Which level of product will achieve what I am hearing from my Oppo?  There's a used off-ramp turbo 2 for sale now in the classifieds.  Is that worth trying?   Or will that still leave me playing catch up with the oppo?   

Something like the off-ramp 3 with superclock 4 sounds nice, but getting pretty far out of my price range unless it's a noticeable upgrade over the turbo 2.  And if it's all still just trying to equal a mid-level DVD player, I might just give up and go back to flipping disks.     

Thanks for any thoughts or feedback anyone might have!

[PLMONROE]

   

Something like the off-ramp 3 with superclock 4 sounds nice, but getting pretty far out of my price range unless it's a noticeable upgrade over the turbo 2.  And if it's all still just trying to equal a mid-level DVD player, I might just give up and go back to flipping disks.     

Thanks for any thoughts or feedback anyone might have!

Comparing an Off Ramp 3 with superclock to the average mid-level DVD player is more akin to comparing  a Bentely to a Yugo, IMHO.

Paul

[jimiles]

The Empirical gear is just in a whole other league.  I don't say that lightly because I've heard to Oppo and know it to be a great machine.  Cartoonishly good for the money, in fact.  That said, you can not possibly go wrong with that Offramp you are contemplating...particularly at the listed price.

The great thing is that there are so many upgrade paths with Empirical, too.  While it all performs great out of the box, there are multiple options to radically upgrade the power supply: BPT, Paul Hynes, and Steve is even cooking up some new battery power supplies in-house.  Also, Steve will upgrade the clock or just about anything else in the Offramp itself (that's technically feasible) for a very reasonable price.  So if the upgrade bug ever bites, you don't have to throw it out and start over, it's a VERY flexible and extensible platform.

The Offramp is great, Steve is great, the community is great...I say you go for it!   

Party On!
Jake

P.S.  I almost forgot to mention the important stuff: I'm a PaceCar 2 owner.

[rumatt]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Re-reading my post, it sounds as if I was doubting the off-ramp could be any good, and that's not really the message I was trying to convey. 

I was just surprised that if the Oppo is only mediocre, and it's a step up from the Trends/HagUSB... and it made me question the whole PC route.

Honestly I don't have a golden ear, and I don't claim to be able to hear the difference between most cables, etc.   So this really surprised me.

[audioengr]

I do PC audio using a the standard setup:
 - Flac ripped via EAC
 - Foobar 2000 on laptop
 - ASIO4ALL tested to be bit-perfect via DTS test
 - HagUSB or Trends UD-10
 - DAC: VDA-2 or Stello DA100

I did an experiment where I compared a) HagUSB, b) Trends, c) the coax out from my Oppo DV-970 DVD player,  all feeding the VDA-2.  The HagUSB and Trends were pretty close (with the possible edge going to the HagUSB), but what shocked me is that the Oppo definitely sounded better than both of them.      So my questions are:

1) Is it expected that the jitter levels on a mid-level DVD/CD player would outperform the HagUSB/Trends, or do you think it suggests a problem on the PC setup?

These USB converters are all based on the PCM270X chip from TI.  This is a plug-and-play chip that is difficult to reduce the jitter on.  I've modded it in past products, including the Off-Ramp WiFi.  Also, using ASIO I would not recommend.  This will color the sound.

2) Which level of product will achieve what I am hearing from my Oppo?

Any of my products.

There's a used off-ramp turbo 2 for sale now in the classifieds.  Is that worth trying?   Or will that still leave me playing catch up with the oppo?

Sure.  Make sure it has the Superclock4, the latest USB firmware and the internal coax cable upgrade.

Steve N.

[WGH]

...or do you think it suggests a problem on the PC setup?

Not trying to dissuade you from getting the off-ramp, at the asking price you could easily re-sell it for the same amount but I have a couple of suggestions:

1.) Convert some flac test tracks to .wav, some people can hear the difference.

2.) Try a different ASIO driver. I bought the usb-audio driver because 2 years ago it sounded better with the HagUSB, there is a free demo version available. I haven't compared the ASIO4ALL and usb-audio drivers for 2 years so the differences may be smaller now but you won't know until you listen on your system.

Wayne