[analognut]

I recently upgraded my TT to a Sota Star with SMEV and new DL-103R cart. Am using a 100ohm load on the cart.
TT & arm were purchased used, but I had Sota rebuild the Star to better than new specs and the arm is in primo condition- upon balancing it and moving it around I could detect  no stickiness whatsoever in the vertical or lateral planes. All screw & bolts have been properly tightened up to minimize resonances.

This outfit is so far ahead of what I had been using for 25+ years that listening to it is a pleasant experience.

I've been fiddling with it for several weeks and have watched it get progressively better up to around 150 LP sides played, where the system seemed to become very stable, with very low rumble and wow so low it's hard to hear. Not claiming to be an expert I assume this happened when the bearing was fully run in. I have actually watched this happen, as I record the LPs into computer and view them in my wave editor.

Silicone trough on the SME V was low when I got the table, so finally one day I purchased some 30,000cst fluid and filled it, per SME reccomendations.

When I started playing around with the amount of damping applied I noticed a major improvement in the sound, and ended up leaving the paddle fully down into the trough for max damping. First impression was this makes the sound smoother, more subdued. Another minute of listening revealed what I was hearing was more accuracy all across the spectral range and less "hash" in the high end, resulting in a better sound, to me.

So my question is "How far can I take this"? Does anyone have hands-on experience with SMEV arm and Denon cart?

I've had a very knowledgeable source tell me he didn't think you could have too much damping on an arm like mine, where the trough is mounted back at the pivot point. Perhaps that was a simplified overstatement, I don't know. I also realize that it's commonly felt that over-damping the tonearm yields unpleasant results.

I feel the sound can still be improved with regards to accuracy. I'm tempted to get some 60k cst fluid and try that out.
If 30k cst fluid is good, is there any reason why 60kcst fluid should not be better?

Thanks,
John

[*Scotty*]

Sooner or later you will have enough damping of the tonearms motion that you will overcome the cartridges suspension on warps and you will bottom it out.
Scotty

[analognut]

Actually the table has vacuum holddown. Also, my records are very nearly flat after being stored vertically for 25+ years. I know for a fact they are flatter now than when I bought them. The bottom line is that every side I play is absolutely, perfectly flat, with very little vacuum needed to achieve this.

Just curious if anyone would think that going to 60k damping could provide more accuracy at the high end. As earlier noted, I don't claim to be an expert on vinyl. I was hoping for some feedback regarding damping- there doesn't seem to be a whole of info on the net pertaining to it.

Maybe I'm just over-doing it? At 54, I don't trust my hearing like I used to. I've been putting in around 10-12 hrs a day re-digitizing my collection since I got the new table. Do I need to take a break for a day or two, then try it again? I am quite serious about the CDs I make. I believe the Waves DirectX plug-ins I use in my editor are the world's finest. 

[*Scotty*]

analognut,  The 103R has a 16.5 Micron round tip, this means that it won't give you the greatest high frequency resolution or extension. This tip is usually referred to as a spherical tip as opposed to an elliptical or line contact stylus profile. A common elliptical stylus profile is 2x7 microns. The 2 micron radius is the size the the side of the diamond in contact with the groove walls as you can see this is several times smaller than 16.5 micron radius and consequently traces the high frequency information more accurately rather than riding over the top of it.
Scotty

[analognut]

Really? 4x7 elliptical must be quite common also, as I certainly have observed a lot of those. I'm most definitely not a cart expert, but was under the impression that the DL-103R has an extremely small tip, it is similar to conical, but has a different shape allowing it to ride lower in the groove. It certainly has been playing from mostly untouched vinyl in my case. I previously used an Ort X5-MC which has a nude FG stylus, and I have to say, sounds REALLY dead compared to the 103R.

I've been thinking maybe I need to try an AT-OC9MLII and get into the micro-line game. You got an opinion on that one? One of the cool things about the 103R is you don't need to worry at all about SRA. It sounds the same regardless of where it's set, unless, of course you get needlessly way off the mark. The idea of tuning the sound with the micro-line intrigues me and I've been wondering if a tuned OC9 would/could sound better than the 103R??

But right now my spare cash is getting mighty low. $339 for an OC9 is going to be hard to give up. Should I go for it? Is there something that compares to it for less? From what I've read, my guess is no, not at that price-point.

Thanks for your feedback Scotty! I welcome all the advice I can get!
John 

[*Scotty*]

For myself I would save my cash and do it right one time, the AT-OC9MLII in my opinion would be a half way step towards a Soundsmith 103-Ruby CL NUDE. Your existing 103R can be modded to RUBY CL specs by Soundsmith see link  http://www.sound-smith.com/retip/
This gets you all the way there without negating your investment in the 103R.
Scotty

[analognut]

Thanks very much for your insights into that Scotty. Sounds like a good idea.

Still looking for anyone who might have an opinion about running 60k cst damping fluid in the SME V arm...

[lcrim]

analognut:
I've owned the AT-OC9MLII and if you are a fan of the Denon 103 family sound, you will be getting the anti-Denon 103. 

Being kind, the Denon 103's are "musical" or not very analytical.  The AT-OC9MLII was very detailed, at first, to my ears.  Since I was at the time, new to LOMC cartridges, this was a revelation.  In time however, the attraction wore off, and it just sounded too zingy.   This became tiring to listen to for long.

 

[analognut]

Icrim I really appreciate that tidbit. That's the sound I want to be rid of.

I think Scotty's idea of having Sound-smith mod the 103R is a good one. The 103R sounds virtually the same at almost any SRA/VTA setting due to its stylus design, which I think is cool. If you asked me I'd say it sounds really great, very alive, but I want more! My new setup should be capable of handling more. 

[TheChairGuy]

Thanks very much for your insights into that Scotty. Sounds like a good idea.

Still looking for anyone who might have an opinion about running 60k cst damping fluid in the SME V arm...

No opinion necessarily, just a couple places that sell liquid silicone cheaper than most of the 'makers' of the TT/arms:

http://turntablebasics.com/silicone.html (Tim, the owner is reliable...but doesn't carry 60000 cst )

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0097p?MANUFACTURER=MUG&FVSEARCH=DIFFERENTIAL+OIL++ (Differential, or tranny fluid, for remote controlled cars is the same stuff and sold cheapest at hobby shops such as Tower Hobbies.  I have bought the 30000 and 50000 cst oils from these fella's and the amounts for $8.99 will last a lifetime.

They always have emailed specials, too, this is the latest I think:

If Your Order Totals:    YOU SAVE    Use Ad#
$100.00 - $149.99    $10.00    011D1
$150.00 - $174.99    $15.00    011D2
$175.00 - $199.99    $20.00    011D3
$200.00 - $224.99    $25.00    011D4
$225.00 or more       $30.00    011D5

John

[analognut]

That's cool Chairguy, and a big help. I will get some 50k rather than the 60K at Towerhobbies, and try it out.

Since filling the damper trough full and running the damper maxxed out made such an improvement I can't help but wonder where the limit is! The even higher viscosity fluid may provide additional benefits!

A friend of mine also has the SMEV/DL-103R combo, but uses a Sota Millenia. He's a retired mechanicl engineer and his opinion is he doesn't see how you can get too much damping when the damping occurs at the pivot point of the bearing, as with the SMEV arm. He also runs his damper all the way down.

Still wondering what some other folks may be doing with their SME V arms and DL-103R carts. I know that pulling that 30k cst fluid out is going to be like trying to extract thick syrup and it's likely to be messy!