[Housteau]

I recognize several regulars here that I know from other area of The Audio Circle and so I can't think of a better forum to ask these questions.  First off let me say that I only know the basics of audio servers, but I would like to move in this direction, with a little help.  My needs are not too overwhelming.  I am not looking to convert my entire music collection, but would rather like a server as more of a supplement, a place for some higher resolution downloads and a place to record music from friends.  I would also use my external DAC.  It will be located in my dedicated listening room with no need to network anything unless that would add to the musical performance.

I had tried something like this a while ago and was not overly impressed with my efforts.  I used an old computer with an advance Creative Card with RCA SPDIF outputs, ASIO, FOOBAR, Audacity, etc.  I used it to record from LP and tapes.  It worked well, but files burned to CD sounded better through my transport than straight from the hard drive.  So, something was not right.  It also had a lot of cooling fan noise which is a nonstarter.  My other experience was with a Friends laptop with USB out to a Benchmark DAC1.  I thought it sounded pretty nice, but lacked something.  That something was involvement in the music.  It just didn't seem to be there.  So, once again something was not quite right.

That brings me to now and the willingness to try once again as some simple methods to get what I would like.  I have considered units such as those from Olive, the Opus, older Musica etc.  They seem to be simple one box solutions.  However, the new units can be a bit pricey.  Can a laptop be a good source?  That would seem to be an ideal and convenient way to go if it could be done properly.  It can't be just that simple though as my friend is still struggling with his.  Is it the USB interface that might be the problem?  I know that Toslink is said to be inferior to RCA, or BNC, but could the fact that it allows electrical isolation from a possible dirty computer actually be beneficial?

The Sony Vaio looks interesting with its audio capabilities , optical out, software for DSD support etc.  What about the Macs with their optical outs.  Should I consider this direction, or look elsewhere?

Any suggestions on where to start?

[woodsyi]

High resolution downloads rule out Squeezebox.  You can go with a stock Transporter to feed your DAC or go with a Modwright unit using the built in DAC with his famous analog output stage.   Since you plan to have a PC in the room, you can also go with Empirical Audio's Off Ramp.  It will take your music out through a USB connection and feed it to your DAC via SPDIF with very little jitter.  Eitherway, you can play 24/96 music downloads.   PC sound card I think is not as good with jitter.

[Housteau]

High resolution downloads rule out Squeezebox.  You can go with a stock Transporter to feed your DAC or go with a Modwright unit using the built in DAC with his famous analog output stage.   Since you plan to have a PC in the room, you can also go with Empirical Audio's Off Ramp.  It will take your music out through a USB connection and feed it to your DAC via SPDIF with very little jitter.  Eitherway, you can play 24/96 music downloads.   PC sound card I think is not as good with jitter.

This is where my lack of server knowledge starts to get me confused a bit.  So, let me see if I understand you correctly.  The USB interface often has high jitter which could account for poor performance going into a USB DAC?  The Empirical Off Ramp conversion to SPDIF corrects that where a laptop plus the Off Ramp can make a very good server?  The Transporter is also a good conversion to the DAC also requiring a PC (Mac) as a storage system?

Ideally I would not like to have a PC in my listening room if not needed.  The laptop option being portable is more reasonable in my mind though.  What about the optical outputs that several use.  How well do they work?  That would eliminate the need for an interface unit.  But, I guess that would make things too easy and uncomplicated, definitely not the audiophile way .

[woodsyi]

You will need a network "transport" if you don't want PC/MAC in the listening room.  Logitech Transporter will do 24/96.  I think jrebman is using Popcorn Hour A110 (much cheaper) to do 24/96 as posted here http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=65732.0  If you give up the hi res, you get more options.  If you already have a PC somewhere in the house, it would be easy to add an external disk to store your music and use one of the network servers to access it and transport it to your DAC. 

You can still use Steve's Off Ramp if you want to get a lab top or a small silent PC with music stored in Network Attatched Storage (NAS) outside the room.  I think drives connected to your main PC would be like a NAS except that your PC has to be powered on. 

[Housteau]

You can still use Steve's Off Ramp if you want to get a lab top or a small silent PC with music stored in Network Attached Storage (NAS) outside the room.  I think drives connected to your main PC would be like a NAS except that your PC has to be powered on. 

Thanks to Paul Monroe I will have access to an Off-Ramp to try with my Toshiba laptop.  If this appears promissing my next step will be a Mac Mini with an good USB cable.  If I can achieve at least equal quality to my transport and DAC combo with 16/44 using the Toshiba, then I will know that I am on to something.

[jrebman]

Rim,

Nope, no Popcorn Hour here -- must be somebody else.  Still contemplating how I'm going to get into the high-res world, but it will probably come down to either the Wavelength Proton or the new gizmo that Lee at Cryo-Parts has under his hat.  The choice will come down to what I can afford and which will work best for my needs.  And since right now only Lee knows what he's coming out with I don't have to decide now .

-- Jim

[woodsyi]

Sorry Jim,

It's another Jim, JDUBS, who started that Popcorn Hour thread.  Good information on other hi res servers there. 

[JLM]

Your interests are similar to mine.  I'm a computer idiot.  I tried a nicely modded SqueezeBox, but every few weeks would develop a glitch that would confound me and render me musicless.  Days or weeks of fooling around later I'd stumble into a fix.  I did not like being a captive of my own ignorance.  And I didn't like having to rip everything first or not being able to easily travel.  But mostly I didn't like the complexity.  So while I wait for a simply, bullet proof solution to appear, I've been "slumming" with an Oppo 170, Channel Island chip based monoblocks, and single driver speakers (and I am very happy).

[avta]

I  would suggest you begin with a modestly priced system such as a Squeezebox 2 or 3. You can connect to it wirelessly using a computer with g wireless protocol i.e the older one. The software that is available from the manufacturer is easy to set up and offers many options. I use one with a Mac Mini which I bought used many years ago. You will, in my opinion, be able to play cd quality music files ( downloaded or ripped ) and depending on your system exceed the quality of all but the more expensive cd players. You will also be able to access many internet stations free using Squeezenetwork which is part of the software available. Although there are occasional glitches as with any system I do not think you will find them that troublesome.

[Housteau]

I  would suggest you begin with a modestly priced system such as a Squeezebox 2 or 3. You can connect to it wirelessly using a computer with g wireless protocol i.e the older one. The software that is available from the manufacturer is easy to set up and offers many options. I use one with a Mac Mini which I bought used many years ago. You will, in my opinion, be able to play cd quality music files ( downloaded or ripped ) and depending on your system exceed the quality of all but the more expensive cd players. You will also be able to access many internet stations free using Squeezenetwork which is part of the software available. Although there are occasional glitches as with any system I do not think you will find them that troublesome.

I have a dedicated listening room that is physically separated from my home.  If it wasn't I would consider a wireless connection to my computer in another part of my house.  My interest now is to keep everything together, simple and in my listening room where I have no need to network to anyplace else.  That is why I would like to pursue a simple 2 box wired solution to having a computer based server.  I believe you can connect the Squeezebox directly, but I don't think it is optimized for that sort of connection.  Those interface units from Empirical Audio are and that is why I wanted to give this a shot first.

[Housteau]

But mostly I didn't like the complexity.  So while I wait for a simply, bullet proof solution to appear, I've been "slumming" with an Oppo 170, Channel Island chip based monoblocks, and single driver speakers (and I am very happy).

I prefer simple also.  I used to think I wanted a one box solution like the Olive's, but I have heard they have less than optimum interfacing issues at their S/PDIF outputs.  I believe I already have good digital sound in my room.  The idea to go server based is to take steps up, not down.  A step sideways would also be OK.

[tvyankee]

www.computeraudiophile.com

http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/index.html

you can read all day until you feel like your head is going to explode.

have fun.

[Brown]

Its all in how one configures the computer. There are several tricks to do with Windows at your control panel that makes huge difference in playback. Go to Advanced tabs, click performance settings then choose "Adjust for best performance" under processor settings set for " Best performance for of background settings".  For me running Windows XP installing ASIO#4 as the drive was a good step as well. Ripping on EAC and using J. River Media Center for playback was also a good step.
  Connected a Musicstreamer + with USB to my preamp. The results were staggering. Made me Wonder why I spent so much money on my CDP. Never again.

[ted_b]

  It will be located in my dedicated listening room with no need to network anything unless that would add to the musical performance.

Housteau,
I know you've said you want simplicity.   But simplicity is a tough concept; do you mean simple to set up?  Simple to add music to?  Simple to operate?  And the quote above is what's got me the most confused, as you also state that you don;t want fan noise, etc from a standard pc setup.  

Music servers are not exactly simple, as they require some effort to make sure they are either silent (to be in the same room) or accessible via networking, something you said you don't want to do if possible.  Even a laptop means that you need storage nearby, whether in the next room, a closet, etc, all tethered via some sort of transmission line.  And the config options, mainly in Windows-based computers, are worth looking into, to, so as to not invoke OS-based hurdles like Kmixer, etc.

The process of adding music to the server requires an initial setup of a good ripping solution (like EAC) but then the process is "simple" assuming you know pc's.

thridly, the vehicle to use to get your music to your DAC is likely determined by the DAC.  Native USB is very very limited (16/44) but Steve's Empirical optiomns, and Gordon's avelenght or ayre options have taken USB into the hirez world.  Then there's always firewire or AES/EBu, etc.

IMO, the biggest issue in hard disc music is the user interface, a choice often dictated by the server/network choices above.  I am a long time Modwright Transporter user (his first customer) and have become spoiled at the simple Squeeze Center interface approach.  It works via a dumb remote and the TP's front panel, or via a programmable remote like Pronto (to view album art, etc.) or best yet, via an iTouch/Iphone and the nice iPeng app (very iTunes like interface with all the bells and whistles).  Problem is, once you go to a PC or Mac-based server that does not have it's own GUI, then you are asked to use one of the many software players out there (Foobar, Media Monkey, iTunes, JR River, xxxhighend, Songbird, etc.), all of which have limited and/or no real remote options.  

Each of these subjects could be discussed in huge detail and they are nicely touched upon over on Chris's website, Computer Audiophile dot com (as stated above).  

So, now that I've ranted on and on, does this mean I dislike hard disc music and music servers.  Hell no, I love it.  It's the only way to go IMHO.  It just takes some work, some planning, and some trials and errors.  If you've ever heard well-recorded 24/192 (or even 24/96) then you'll realize we are getting closer and closer to that promise of the best of analog and digital.

[Housteau]

If you've ever heard well-recorded 24/192 (or even 24/96) then you'll realize we are getting closer and closer to that promise of the best of analog and digital.

Yes I have and that is what has sparked my interest.  I was also involved with the Live vs Recorded demo presented by VMPS at his years CES (The Show) utilizing DSD. 

By simple I guess I meant several things.  One is that the sole purpose of the music server will be just for my dedicated room and not for streaming any place else.  So, hardwired would be fine and preferred assuming that presents superior, or equal sound quality to going wireless.  One other form of simple was not to commit fully money wise in any particular direction until I have something in front of me that points solidly in that direction.

Starting with a good interface, such as one for Empirical Audio (which I have been given to try) should eliminate at least one big obstacle.  From there I am not opposed to using a PC.  In fact I will be trying that first from a laptop which is new and I already have.  From my reading it just appears that there is often less trouble with a Mac and using a Mac Mini would be quiet and not unlike a quiet laptop.  If I decide to go ahead that just looks like an ideal way to go, assuming I find laptop issues.  If there are no issues there, then I would not need to change, unless my wife wants her laptop back .  Actually, I know this will be an issue I can use as an excuse to get something else .

Storage is not a big issue with me right now as I do not plan to load everything into it.  This is just to supplement what I have now.  I should know fairly soon if I am on to something and be able to make some of the other decisions you have described.  That could very well be the way I want to go, but for now I want to try 'simple' to be sure what will be right for me.

[wilsynet]

Everyone has their own idea of simple, but to me it's:

Laptop computer (built in monitor, portable, not a lot of wires)
USB DAC or Empirical Audio Off Ramp and the DAC of your choice
iPod Touch or iPhone for remote control

Add an external USB drive later as your collection grows.  No networking needed to get the drive to work, and likely quieter than lot of NAS boxes out there.


 

[ted_b]

Everyone has their own idea of simple, but to me it's:

Laptop computer (built in monitor, portable, not a lot of wires)
USB DAC or Empirical Audio Off Ramp and the DAC of your choice
iPod Touch or iPhone for remote control

Add an external USB drive later as your collection grows.  No networking needed to get the drive to work, and likely quieter than lot of NAS boxes out there.


 

Simple is not that easy.    Plain USB DAC? Then you're not dealing with hirez, which is the OP's first criteria.  Also...so if you use an iTouch/iPhone for remote, then what music player do you access?  If iTunes, how do you deal with hi-rez files and changing resolutions (iTunes doesn't handle it well; system needs to be restarted, etc.)? 

[PLMONROE]

I understand that Empirical Audio will have a modification later this year which will allow 24/192 operation by their USB OffRamp 3 or Overdrive USB DAC. So high rez is slowly evolving.

Perhaps unlike many I am using a desktop computer. It uses the second generation HP MediaCenter to store  my collection  and although  it is very quiet I have taken the added precaution to place it in a closed closet in my  music room so there is no sound intrusion from it. I utilize Renote Desktop Control (www.remote-desktop-control.com) which is really a slick program. It allows me to remotely control all functions of the desktop computer wirelessly from my laptop at my side either by network or via the internet.  As for a player I seem to vacillate between Foobar 8.3, J. River, Media Monkey and Quxx (which sometimes I think sounds the best of the lot)

Now what I really would like is a GUI like that of Sooloos or Qsonix! And it would be nice if it were also inexpensive, rubbed your back, and brewed coffee. HECK, one can always ask can't one?   

[Hoots]

Wow, the post above is similar to me.

PC Audio is the most transformational audio technology I have ever experienced!

REMOTE CONTROL = Laptop (or my Tablet)  & windows remote desktop to my HP Media Center in a closet behind my stereo (cable through wall).  I'm usually on the internet (reading about album) or ratings songs as I listen or making notes as I listen so I like the laptop vs a handheld.  The laptop is the new lp jacket   I also like reading my laptop vs a big screen projection w/hand held remote (I can do that, too)

SOFTWARE PLAYER = J River Media Jukebox - I have used Foobar, winamp, Meedio, MCE, MediaMonkey, Music Match, itunes, ZUNE over the years and absolutely LOVE J River !!!  It gives me the flexibility to do what I want (seems like the best of all the others).  ASIO, up-sample to 24/96, portable syn, burn, theater or workstation mode, all formats (i.e. FLAC/wma/mp3), cover view, sort by dates or other criteria, tag, smart lists (i.e. songs from 1960's with rating of 4 or 5 stars, etc.).

PC to STEREO CONNECTION = PC direct to HiFi through wall in closet for silent operation.   I currently use SPDIF but would like to use  an Empiracle Audio solution (off-ramp to DAC).

DISKS - internal 1tb mirrored to 1.5tb external

[PLMONROE]

As for a player I seem to vacillate between Foobar 8.3, J. River, Media Monkey and Quxx (which sometimes I think sounds the best of the lot)

Now what I really would like is a GUI like that of Sooloos or Qsonix! And it would be nice if it were also inexpensive, rubbed your back, and brewed coffee. HECK, one can always ask can't one?   

OOPS, I forgot to mention that the free version of Quxx player will only accommodate 1,000 tracks. To do more you will need to get the Pro version which will handle a maximum of 100k or 200k tracks (I forget which). But it's only ten bucks or so and Matt gives the very best customer service for it that I have ever seen.

Paul