[blueaudiodon]

Kevin,
Believe me, I have confronted him with that very issue.  He continues to say that there was no issue with the drivers.  However, he says to find out the cost for replacement drivers as if he might pay.  I hope Joe can find me 2 bass drivers at $150 ea.  You don't know how sick it makes me to be in this situation, but all things can be fixed.  At what expense is the question.

[JackD201]

Hey blue,

Lets try some offsite trouble shooting.

Step 1. If the drivers are working but the cabinet is rattling then the voice coils aren't burned. A burned coil doesn't move. It's like it's welded. Push on the woofers gently not the dust caps of course, and if it has some "give" to it. They definitely aren't burned. If the coils are misaligned and scrape the likely culprit is shipping damage especially if it is loaded with sand or lead shot and transported without the original crates. Still the odds of this happening to both woofers is a million to one. UNLESS...............Could some shot have possibly escaped the chamber or worse yet did the former owner let some in through the port and not the opening at the bottom? Don't laugh it's happened to someone before  . If you're definitely going to replace the drivers you might want to take a look inside.

Step 2. Has "give" but no sound. Try the other pair of lower binding posts. Only one of them will send current to the woofers if the jumpers are not in place. I can't remember whether it's the upper or lower pair of the bass module though so just check it out.

Step 3. Rattling on heavy bass passages. Fellow circle member dante had the same problem. It turns out the spikes on the head unit were not secured tightly enough. A few twists later and the rattling was gone. The same can happen with the bass module spikes if the spike locks are loose or worse if the speakers are not properly leveled. Then again his woofers weren't scraping. Hmmmm.

Give these a try before spending a nickel

JackD201

P.S.

Mk.1s are bi-wire only and not tri-wire despite the 3 sets of binding posts. I'd be wary of sending 4 channels into 2. Without jumpers only one pair of your 6 channel amp is actually working. With jumpers on, well let's just say I'm not too comfortable with the idea.

[avahifi]

Actually a burned voice coil can buzz and play at the same time. It need not be so damaged that it freezes up. 

Excess heat can "spring" a coil or two loose that will scrape in the gap.  Eventually the friction will cause the coil to part and it will fail completely.

However it is not unusual for an overheated voice coil to continue to play normally except to buzz on heavy bass notes and transients.

Give it the "smell test."  If its smells burned, it is.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

P.S  I also suggest that you have a good tech put a scope on the output of your amplifiers as configured to drive the system and look for ultrasonic oscillations.  The heat produced can damage a speaker without you hearing the damage being done.

[JackD201]

I stand corrected Frank Just that I always understood burned as burned. I categorize formers deformed through stress as not quite burned but perhaps on its way. Anyhow, in practice, it makes no difference because they either have to be rewound or replaced just the same.

[blueaudiodon]

Jack and Frank,
Thanks for your input.  First, let me explain the amp setup.  I think I have confused the issue about the six channels.  This is a six channel thx theater type amp.  Each channel is an individual amplifier with its own input and binding post output. There is no strapping or jumpers.  I run 2 sets of rca's from the 2 preamp outputs on the Audible Illusion pre.  Each channel gets either a left or right rca, using a total of four channels.  One left binding post goes to the left mid/high and the right binding posts goes to right mid/high.  The same for the bass modules.

I understand the possibility of the amp causing the driver damage, however this not the amp that I first heard the rattle.  It was an eighteen watt 845 tube amp single wired with the jumpers and umbilical in place per the manual.

I do have concerns about the way the cabinets are loaded.  The previous owner says that he used steel shot (the type used in bead blasting).  Could this not carry magnetic fields, or be smaller than the number six to nine lead shot that is recommended?  I have not removed the drivers yet, I'm still trying to determine if I can repair affordably or if not force the return to the original owner.  He doesn't seem very receptive to the idea of a return.

[McTwins]

Hi
Cant you remove the leads and see how that's turns out to be. I'm not familiar with the VR4Jr and how it looks inside but one could give it a try.
Thanks

[blueaudiodon]

I'm not sure what you mean.

[McTwins]

I mean the leads shot that is loaded inside the bass module. Hope you understand now
Thanks

[MichiganMike]

I do have concerns about the way the cabinets are loaded.  The previous owner says that he used steel shot (the type used in bead blasting).  Could this not carry magnetic fields, or be smaller than the number six to nine lead shot that is recommended? 

The enclosed compartment for loading with lead, sand or other material is at the bottom of the bass module in normal use.  Even if this compartment was fully loaded and the shot was made of steel or another material attracted by a magnet, the shot is several inches away from the magnet structure of the woofers which are located above the port which is in turn above the enclosed compartment for shot.  Any magnetic field would be greatly attenuated at this distance and I do not understand how this might have any significant affect if the integrity of the compartment remains intact. 

Size of the shot should not matter as long as the integrity of the compartment holding same is maintained.  Is it possible some shot escaped the compartment during shipment and found its way into the area with the woofers and possibly is impeding movement of the cone?  Have you considered emptying the shot and checking the compartment or pulling the woofers and checking for shot in the space for the woofers?   

[JackD201]

Hi Blue I meant terminals and jumpers on the speaker's bass modules not the amps. Sorry for the confusion.

Michiganmike,

"Is it possible some shot escaped the compartment during shipment and found its way into the area with the woofers and possibly is impeding movement of the cone?  Have you considered emptying the shot and checking the compartment or pulling the woofers and checking for shot in the space for the woofers?"

I was worried about this exact thing too. It's a longshot but still a possibility. A DC burn is still the more likely suspect I think as these affect only one end of the coil.

If the factory can't find series one woofers I wonder if they can do a re-winding?

[blueaudiodon]

Jack,

Joe, at VSA, said the drivers could not be repaired, they must be replaced. 

My question is, if these speakers carry a ten year warranty, why would the drivers not be available?

[McTwins]

Good question. But i do believe if you are the first owner the ten year warranty applies.
Thanks

[MichiganMike]

On another thread in this owners circle, several owners of VR4 JR speakers have expressed interest in an upgrade to VR4 Anniversary speakers.  This upgrade will involve replacing the woofers.  In the near future, you may be able to find at an attractive price used woofers in good condition from a VR4 JR Mark I that is being upgraded either through the owner or through Von Schweikert.

As the owner of eight Von Schweikert speakers (four VR4 JR speakers and four TS150 speakers) all still under warranty, I understand the point that owners of VR4 JR speakers may expect that Von Schweikert would stock replacement parts at least for the duration of the warranty period, even if the warranty may not apply in your case.  According to my VR4 JR owners manual the warranty extends to a second owner, but expressly excludes burned voice coils due to amp clipping, which may or may not be the case here.  My speculation is that some of the problems that reportedly motivated Von Schweikert to halt manufacture of speakers in China may also have resulted in disruption of the supply chain for spare parts for the speakers originally sourced from China.

 

[illenema]

Yes,  it is nothing more than six individual amps in one case.  I have run these amps like this for a number of years, off and on, and they keep on singing.  I have just talked to VSA again and Joe says that the mk2 is different xover and silver in color.  He is still trying to locate me some mk1's at a warehouse.

I will venture to say they Can Not come up with original drivers.
I have been thru this with VS before and not again.

[blueaudiodon]

Don't tell me that. I talked to Joe earlier in the week and he said he was trying to source some new drivers, he did not have any of the originals in the warehouse.

What has been your experience?

[illenema]

Don't tell me that. I talked to Joe earlier in the week and he said he was trying to source some new drivers, he did not have any of the originals in the warehouse.

What has been your experience?

Well these speakers were the vr8. the 13" bass driver. VS fixed the driver once at the factory, then it went out completely, Albert was helpful but  had NO idea ware to get a new 13" audax. I found  Zalytron had a close replacement that was from audax. Vs wanted me to bore the cabinets open and put in 15" eminence drivers...  With as many 4jrs VS sold I would kind of think they would have some recone kits in stock. I had a post on this before. Check out zalytron.com. Good place