[Carlman]

I have a new house and I'm trying to decide which room would be best for hifi.  Each room has its pro's and con's but, size is the biggest.  Both rooms are on the bottom floor and are hardwood.  I don't have any room treatment yet.  

I'll take pictures soon.

Here's the rooms:

Room 1: 14x17 plus, opens into a kitchen/breakfast nook area... so, the room is actually 14x27 with a half-wall in the last third of the room.  It also has an opening to a staircase and a large opening to a foyer that goes up to the 2nd floor.

In order to have this room easily accessible and 'pretty' the whole thing is turned 45* or so.  So, the speakers and couch are at a 45* angle from the walls.  

This is where everything is now.  It sounds pretty good but, I need room treatments and I get all kinds of reflection from all over the house bouncing back to the listening area.  As the volume rises, the image starts to suffer tremendously.  At lower volumes, the imaging is ok but, a bit misplaced still.

Room treatment is limited to nearly-invisible things.  I plan on making customized crown molding to immitate 8th Nerve's product.  Even that is getting some negative feedback from 'the boss'.  I cannot change the position of the speakers from where they are.  They cannot be pulled into the room any more than they are now. (about 1' from the wall)

Room 2:  11x12 plus, a bay window makes for an additional 2' for part of one of the 11' walls.  There's a 70" doorway opening into the foyer on one of the longer walls... but, there are no doors in this doorway.

I have unlimited freedom with placement and room treatment.  This room is more isolated from the rest of the house.  I can put up heavy curtains all along one wall with the bay window and in the doorway between the room and the foyer.  

My biggest problem with the smaller room is that my speakers are very large.  They sound great in a room about 17x24 without a lot of amplification.  I like the big, lively sound they create and would want to maintain my sound as much as possible.

So, my main question is: are my speakers too big for the room?  and secondly, is there a smaller speaker/sub combo that's fast and detailed but, maintains a natural sound?

Thanks,
Carl

[lonewolfny42]

Hello Carl, I have my system in a room that is 12x12x8. Its MY stereo room. A little cramped, with system, racks,recliners, ect.. My living room is 26x15x8. In that room is a 53 inch screen TV. That in a way is "the boss's room" . She wanted a big screen , she got it! Most of my time is spent in the den (stereo) room ( when I have time). Is it perfect, no. But if you have "your own room" , you can do as you like. ( Good WAF).The Mirage M-3s are a large speaker, but they do sound nice in this room. Why not try both rooms out ? A lot depends on how loud you play your system. (My den has a nice door that I can close, and crank the MC5 - "Kick out the Jams" to "live levels", 102 db, if I like. ) Best of luck to you. ( Got room for an extension on the house ?)

[thorman]

I would go for the large room ,mostly to let the music flow and filtrate into a larger area. Treatment will be a big help but don't try too much at one time. Just little things like rugs heavy insulated curtains and other regular room stuff and eventually you will have a nice compromise. I have a large ( aprox 600 sq.ft. ) room which i take up 2/3 of it and slowly  its starting to come around ( newly built home 2 yrs old ) very nicely. In my experiance its best to take it slowly with small changes and try to find a good balance between soft and hard materials.. Most of all have fun with it....

[Carlman]

I will try it out if for no other reason than because I can.  I do like the 'my room' aspect but, understand what space does for sound.  Unfortunately in my case, I have too much of the wrong kind of space.  

If I do end up going to the smaller room, I will be able to try some other cool options that are out there; specifically these:
http://www.gr-research.com/performer/av1plus.htm
or the Ellis 1801's.... but, I don't know how any of these sound.

I'm just thinking about all this... Adding an extension to the house.... oh my...     Maybe one day but, not ANYtime soon.

Oh, one additional note, all ceilings are 9' except in the foyer where they're almost 20.

[lonewolfny42]

Carl, Had the GR Research Criterion's on demo in my small room. Sounded very good. I did think , could of used a sub, but sounded good. The Diluceo looked like an even better match for me. A little more slam in the bass department. I'm sure others have their favorites.

[Hantra]

are my speakers too big for the room?

Yes.  I am sure that your current speakers are too large for that sized room.

and secondly, is there a smaller speaker/sub combo that's fast and detailed but, maintains a natural sound?

Hmm. . . I could recommend without reservation the Piega C2 Limited, and a decent, tight sub.  Even the C3 Limited would be good in that room, but as you know, they aren't the last word in bass impact.

As far as what to do, I often find myself asking the same question about the room thing.  I would love to have a big enough room for the Ben, but that would be my main living room, and it just won't work.  My living room is much larger than the listening room, but the Ben's would dominate that area.  

[doug s.]

i am fortunate to have a big room.  i would heartily recommend a big listening room over a small one *any* day.  the room is far & away the most important component to a home audio rig, imo, and anyting that will reduce 1st reflections to the listener is desirable.  the easiest sound treatment is to get yer speakers away from the walls - easy to do in a big room.  less acoustical treatment will be needed to absorb these reflections.

i tink my audio system sounds great, but, much as i have obsessed over the gear,  i'm not so sure it's the components as much as the room itself that gives me a good sound.  sure, some gear has sounded better than other gear, but it always sounds good...  i can recall only one piece of equipment i couldn't live with long-term in my rig, & only one pair of speakers, which yust couldn't do rock in my room, even when crossed over to my subs.  but this isn't normally an issue - the speakers i am presently using are only 86db/1w efficient, and ~10"h x 6"w x 9" w/4.5" woofers.  these tings will *rock*...

doug s.

[JohnR]

Take the small room! You can always set up a "oh I thought it might be nice to have some music in here as well" system in the large room later!!

Shared rooms are a bear. It sounds like you are already on the back foot in terms of what you can do there. Then someone will be watching TV, have visitors over, etc etc   Plus a larger room sucks up more juice, and stuff like those extra openings and so on, you can't do anything about them.

Aside: I worked for a guy once who was quite intrigued by the parade of tube amps that went through my office. (True.) So he asked me to help him buy some new speakers, what would I suggest. I gave up when I found out that not only did the speakers *have* to be white, but they had also had to be "tall" because one of them *had* to be behind the couch.

Yeah so small rooms aren't ideal but they can be less trouble. And less expensive to treat acoustically as well.

My 2c

[JLM]

Grab the smaller room.  (Varying room sizes is a reason I advocate that your main speakers not go down to 20 Hz, so that you can dial a powered sub in to match the room.)

If your S.O. is anything like mine, she spends money to fill every nook and cranny of the house.  (I attribute it to a genetically programed female "nest building" trait.)

My stereo is packed against one wall of our office/dining room.

[Carlman]

Yes, it's all about freedom... As much as I'd like to keep a big room, what good is it when you have so many restrictive parameters you have to deal with... I can't pull my speakers into the room more than 1 foot, can't have pillows on the walls, can't have wire showing, can't, can't, can't...

And, since this is a main entertaining room, I agree with a lot of the can't's.

I've decided to move my hobby to the wee-room.  Initially, I'll have the towering Revel's but, after their sale, I'll be heavily investigating things like the Diluceo's, Piega's, or whatever I can find in the 2,k range with a sub.  This process has to be nearly a net zero affair.  Money is tight so, the challenge begins.

Thanks to all for the input.  

-Carl

[bubba966]

I'll have the towering Revel's but, after their sale, I'll be heavily investigating things like the Diluceo's, Piega's, or whatever I can find in the 2,k range with a sub.

In the GR Research room at VSAC this year I heard both the Diluceo's and the A/V-3's as well as an Adire XBL_2 driver based sub.

I liked the sound of the A/V-3's with the Adire sub quite a lot. I unfortunately didn't get to hear the Diluceo's with the sub as Danny had loaned it out at that time. So I can't comment on the Diluceo's with a sub (which they needed).

But the sub cost $599, and the A/V-3's were $1,450 if I remember right. Just a bit over 2K. But I think you'd be hard pressed to do better on a new pair of speaks & sub at that price point.

Ask Danny more about that sub he was using at VSAC as I don't recall who was building it at the moment.

[BikeWNC]

Carl,

If your interested, after the holidays, if the Diluceos are still on your list I could bring mine down for you to check out.  It would be a one day kind of thing but at least you would get a chance to hear them with your gear in your room.  We can figure out the details after the New Year if your interested.

Andy

[doug s.]

well, carl, if the shared bigger room means the stereo has to be compromised for other uses, instead of the other way around, as is the case w/my room,     then go for a dedicated smaller room...

good luck,

doug s.

[Carlman]

Wow, an offer to travel with the exact speakers I'm looking into... this forum is incredible.  Andy, you have a PM on its way.  That's an incredibly generous offer.

The system has now officially been moved to the smaller room.  It's not terrible and sounds surprisingly similar to what I had before at lower volumes.  Higher volumes are too... everything.  

So far I have a rug, one chair, hifi, and a couple of small things in the room.  

First impressions:
-Bass is huge  
-Primary reflections are obvious and;
-The echo back and forth from front to rear are out of control.  

Heavy curtains and some paintings/panels/foam/8th Nerve stuff will fix this room very nicely.  It feels bigger than I thought it would.

Thanks again,
Carl