[doug s.]

mebbe there will be a chrysler in my driveway, sometime in the future.  hmmm...   

http://www.italiaspeed.com/2009/cars/industry/01/chrysler/2001_statement.html

fiat owns alfa romeo, lancia, maserati, ferrari, amongst others...

doug s.

[Biscuit]

mebbe there will be a chrysler in my driveway, sometime in the future.  hmmm...   

http://www.italiaspeed.com/2009/cars/industry/01/chrysler/2001_statement.html

fiat owns alfa romeo, lancia, maserati, ferrari, amongst others...

doug s.

Fiat =  Fix It Again Tony   Just kidding, this looks interesting.

[doug s.]

let's not talk about General Mediocrity or Fix Or Repair Daily.   

seriously, alfa's have been my daily drivers since 1992, and i have put ~400k miles on 'em since that time.  certainly more maintenance required than japanese cars i have owned, but no less reliable.  and no more maintenance than any other european cars, ime.  can't comment much on american cars, as i tend to awoid them.   

yust yesterday, i picked up a used scion xb, ('04, 5sp, 52k, absolutely mint, $8k), to help save my present alfa gtv6 3.0 - i don't want to kill it w/my 90 mile/day commute, like i killed my last one, w/+200k miles in 10 years, thru rain, winters, salt, etc.

doug s.

mebbe there will be a chrysler in my driveway, sometime in the future.  hmmm...   

http://www.italiaspeed.com/2009/cars/industry/01/chrysler/2001_statement.html

fiat owns alfa romeo, lancia, maserati, ferrari, amongst others...

doug s.

Fiat =  Fix It Again Tony   Just kidding, this looks interesting.

[Biscuit]

let's not talk about General Mediocrity or Fix Or Repair Daily.   

seriously, alfa's have been my daily drivers since 1992, and i have put ~400k miles on 'em since that time.  certainly more maintenance required than japanese cars i have owned, but no less reliable.  and no more maintenance than any other european cars, ime.  can't comment much on american cars, as i tend to awoid them.   

yust yesterday, i picked up a used scion xb, ('04, 5sp, 52k, absolutely mint, $8k), to help save my present alfa gtv6 3.0 - i don't want to kill it w/my 90 mile/day commute, like i killed my last one, w/+200k miles in 10 years, thru rain, winters, salt, etc.

doug s.

mebbe there will be a chrysler in my driveway, sometime in the future.  hmmm...   

http://www.italiaspeed.com/2009/cars/industry/01/chrysler/2001_statement.html

fiat owns alfa romeo, lancia, maserati, ferrari, amongst others...

doug s.

Fiat =  Fix It Again Tony   Just kidding, this looks interesting.

Very cool.  My only reference is my brother's X19 from the 80's.  Eventually it caught fire due to an electrical short.  He was kind've relieved because it had so many other problems.  Low miles and high headaches.  It was cool looking and fun to drive.  My only Fiat experience!

[lazydays]

I know four or five guys that own about a dozen Alpha roadsters. They love them. Not the car for me, but if it's their bag then I'm for them. But what's even more interesting is wether or not you'll be able to buy a Ferrari at a Chrysler dealership, or better yet get a "class A discount"<g>!
   I think in the end Nissan will own the Dodge truck lines, and G.M. will own the Chrysler mini van product line. Dodge is already tooling up to build the next generation Nissan full sized truck for them, and G.M. just can't seem to get a viable mini van on the market.
    Back to the Fiat thing a second; It's been a long rumored thing that Alpha Romero is wanting to return to the U.S. market is a big way, and Fiat has also shown much interest too. When Mercedes took control of Chrysler the very first thing they did was to get rid of all the engineering staff on hand. Ford and G.M. promptly picked most all of them up the following Tuesday morning. Thus most of Chrysler's woes can be traced to the usual Mercedes incompetence (with them there's a lot to go around). So what happened to all those engineers? Ford got about two thirds of the Viper project staff, and they were put to task to build the Ford GT. At G.M. the rest were tasked with developing the Super Corvette as well as the third generation Z-06. I really can't see Mercedes surviving in a world wide auto market as I watch the Japanese eat their lunch at every turn in the road. After all their best car barely makes it in the top ten cars.
gary

[doug s.]

I know four or five guys that own about a dozen Alpha roadsters. They love them. Not the car for me, but if it's their bag then I'm for them...

i have never owned an alfa romeo rag-top; only 2+2 coupes and four door sedans.  the average american's perception of alfas is warped - >95% of alfas sold in the usa are conwertibles; >95% of alfas sold world-wide are hardtop sedans.  kind of indicates their prior wiews of the american market - nothing upstairs?     hopefully if/when italian cars (except ferrari/maserati), ever make it back to the usa, they will be offered in a full array, not yust a small market segment.  it's their only chance of being successful here, imo.

presently, this is the only alfa offered f/s here, thru maser/ferrari dealerships.  only 84 being sold, at $240k retail (actual selling prices have been considerably higher):



doug s.

[lazydays]

I know four or five guys that own about a dozen Alpha roadsters. They love them. Not the car for me, but if it's their bag then I'm for them...

i have never owned an alfa romeo rag-top; only 2+2 coupes and four door sedans.  the average american's perception of alfas is warped - >95% of alfas sold in the usa are conwertibles; >95% of alfas sold world-wide are hardtop sedans.  kind of indicates their prior wiews of the american market - nothing upstairs?     hopefully if/when italian cars (except ferrari/maserati), ever make it back to the usa, they will be offered in a full array, not yust a small market segment.  it's their only chance of being successful here, imo.

presently, this is the only alfa offered f/s here, thru maser/ferrari dealerships.  only 84 being sold, at $240k retail (actual selling prices have been considerably higher):



doug s.

I like that car!
gary

[Andrikos]

I think this going to be a good deal for FIAT.
I'm assuming they bought low, way low, unlike Daimler Benz that lost Billion$.

The fact of the matter is that 2 Chrysler possessions are useful:
JEEP and Dealer space for imported FIATs. Lancias, Alfa Romeos etc.
Maybe the Minivans too.
Everything else is expendable...

[TheChairGuy]

Can you imagine the average Chrysler dealer selling Alfa-Romeo's?  This has loser deal written ALL over it.

The American taypayer lost $4 billion on this one....Chrysler has no right to be; they've been screwed up for toooo long.

John

[doug s.]

Can you imagine the average Chrysler dealer selling Alfa-Romeo's?  This has loser deal written ALL over it.

The American taypayer lost $4 billion on this one....Chrysler has no right to be; they've been screwed up for toooo long.

John

anytime the american taxpayer pays for corporate welfare, it loses big time.  what else is new?   

in this case, it's up to fiat to decide if they really want to market a full range of cars here or not.  being an alfisti and following what ever fiat is up to, re: alfa and other italian car wentures, i think it's highly unlikely that fiat will offer a wide enough range of rides to be successful here, regardless of who they partner with.  who knows, tho - their willingness to take on a 30% financial responsibility is no small potatoes.  but, regarding chrysler dealers, can you imagine any american car dealer trying to sell anything?   

doug s.

[TheChairGuy]

It's a quick way for them to obtain an instant dealer base and potentially make them a player in the US....and Chrysler gets a partner that makes small cars as a matter of course that they so need...so the synergies look like they are there.

However, the real integration is likely to pan out much differently than the scenario suggests.

I'd love to have access to something other than German (too 'firm' in too many ways), Japanese (ultimately, I find a soul-less exerience) and American (promising at times, but I grow weary of promises).  Some Italian flair for under $30K would be welcome 

I own a SAAB for most of the reasons above

John

[Crimson]

It's a quick way for them to obtain an instant dealer base and potentially make them a player in the US....and Chrysler gets a partner that makes small cars as a matter of course that they so need...so the synergies look like they are there.

However, the real integration is likely to pan out much differently than the scenario suggests.

I'd love to have access to something other than German (too 'firm' in too many ways), Japanese (ultimately, I find a soul-less exerience) and American (promising at times, but I grow weary of promises).  Some Italian flair for under $30K would be welcome 

I own a SAAB for most of the reasons above

John

German: You haf problem vit furm? I luf furm.
Japanese: Mobile sensory deprivation appliances.
American: Fun! (when it's not getting that leak fixed)
Italian: Reminds me of the SNL skit with the amorous eye-talian waiters. Zoom di zoom!

(All in jest............ aa)!

[markC]

My understanding of the Fiat / Chrysler deal is that Fiat is going to help introduce new tooling / manufacturing to produce smaller. more fuel efficient vehicles under the Chrysler brand. Perhaps Chrysler is stuck in the Mopar era.
I loved Mopars and owned a couple in the '80's and 90's.

[lazydays]

Can you imagine the average Chrysler dealer selling Alfa-Romeo's?  This has loser deal written ALL over it.

The American taypayer lost $4 billion on this one....Chrysler has no right to be; they've been screwed up for toooo long.

John

anytime the american taxpayer pays for corporate welfare, it loses big time.  what else is new?   

in this case, it's up to fiat to decide if they really want to market a full range of cars here or not.  being an alfisti and following what ever fiat is up to, re: alfa and other italian car wentures, i think it's highly unlikely that fiat will offer a wide enough range of rides to be successful here, regardless of who they partner with.  who knows, tho - their willingness to take on a 30% financial responsibility is no small potatoes.  but, regarding chrysler dealers, can you imagine any american car dealer trying to sell anything?   

doug s.

I've been setting back waiting for somebody else to bring the corporate welfare numbers up again, and I just hapen to have the data right here in front of me (source: Wall Street Journal).
   With the requested bridge loans being at four billion dollars divided amongst 240,000 employees spread amonst the big three that works out to about$16,000 a head. But by contrast VW gained $288,000 per employee in tax handouts in Tennessee alone. Toyota didn't do nearly as well as they only got $150,000 per head in Texas. Alabama averaged $111,000 per head for four import companys that moved there. The tax payer has to make up that difference, and when those subsidies run out they will usually extort the states to give them another tax break or they move to another state. They also do the same with their electronics industries too (Onkyo in Columbus Indiana comes to light). yet with a domestic company the tax rebate deal only comes with a new operation and it's never longer than four or five years. If the site is already standing the only thing the states ever give them is help with job training.
    The import companys that have relocated to this country will not even buy a U.S. made wrench! Let alone a piece of U.S. owned and built machinery. It all comes out of Asia even though they can buy the samething cheaper in the USA that's more often than not of better quality.
gary

[lazydays]

It's a quick way for them to obtain an instant dealer base and potentially make them a player in the US....and Chrysler gets a partner that makes small cars as a matter of course that they so need...so the synergies look like they are there.

However, the real integration is likely to pan out much differently than the scenario suggests.

I'd love to have access to something other than German (too 'firm' in too many ways), Japanese (ultimately, I find a soul-less exerience) and American (promising at times, but I grow weary of promises).  Some Italian flair for under $30K would be welcome 

I own a SAAB for most of the reasons above

John

keep driving that SAAB cause it's soon to be out of business. It's been a white elephant for many years running, and G.M.'s been trying to sell it for at least four years now. By the way your SAAB is nothing but a Pontiac G6!
gary

[TheChairGuy]

keep driving that SAAB cause it's soon to be out of business. It's been a white elephant for many years running, and G.M.'s been trying to sell it for at least four years now. By the way your SAAB is nothing but a Pontiac G6!
gary

Nope, mine's a '99....well before the G6.  It's actually the platform of the old Opel/Vauxhall Vectra from the 90's.  Not great by any means....but, the car still has it's non-Teutonic/Japanese/American charms.

It, as well as Saturn and Pontiac isn't likely to survive the drastic changes GM is likely to need to make. No matter to me, and with only a little lament at it's eventual passing...I'll still enjoy it's HUGE 5 door hatchback design for a little while longer

John