[Johnny]

Its been exciting to see the new wave of LP new issues and re-issues coming on the market. It started as a trickle  a few years ago and I took the opportunity to purchase LP versions of several releases, eg. Richard Thompson's "The Old Kit Bag", Niel young's "Are you Passionate", among others, to add to my collection. In many cases I bought the cd version as well for convenience, and it is interesting to see a number of more recent LP releases including a CD in the package, eg. My Morning Jacket etc.

I'm sure many of you have seen any number of articles appearing on the web and in print about the decline in in-store CD purchases (vs. downloads of course) and the burgeoning business in LP's, with some large retail outlets in large markets like L.A. reporting as much as 30% of sales in LP's!

Looking at the wealth of tempting LP re-issues available on the web I find myself wondering how many of them are true analog. There is a range of possibilities: Analog remasters from original master tapes; analog remasters from state of the art studio grade digital masters; analog transfers from CD grade (16/44.4) digital sources (Yuk!). I'm happy (sort of) to pay $20-50 for a desirable LP version of a current release if I know its true analog, but there seems to be very little "truth in labeling", dare I say "regulation" in this bull market of LP releases. If you count the ones that explicitly state that they are "All Analog" its a pretty small number.

I haven't been able to find a comprehensive data base or review site for this sort of information on line.
Would there be any interest in starting a thread for listening impressions and any other information that can be found regarding analog quality of new releases and re-issues of LP's?

Thanks!
Jy

[Wayner]

We've kind of tossed this around on a different thread, but here goes again. Lots of LPs were recorded in the digital domain as far back as 1983 (in my record collection). And the obvious answer is that they are not going to be anything other then DDA if that was the case. Maybe the RIAA should come out with a labeling scheme that is reverse of the CD labeling:

DDA= Digitally recorded, digitally mastered, on an Analog format.

DAA= Digitally recorded, analog mastered, on an analog format.

AAA= Analog recorded, analog mastered, on an analog format.

That would end all doubt to some degree.

I personally don't have the dogma about worrying if it's pure analog or not. I heard plenty of shitty analog and digital, and plenty good of both.

Which is why I defend both formats. It is not the format that is at fault here. It is the idiot in the recording booth.

Some of my favorite LP's are recorded originally in both formats, and if you didn't know better, you'd never know. I just wouldn't worry about it. $50 dollars is insane for a new LP.

Wayner

[Scottdazzle]

I want to second Wayner's comment that $50 is insane for a new LP.  Why are some labels (Lost Highway, Columbia, et al) able to produce 2-LP releases for about $20 and cover the costs of production, royalties, and everything else, BUT reissues of old releases which may be in the public domain by now can sell for $50?    I don't get it. LP pricing seems to be all over the map, from $12 (Shelby Lynne) to $80 (Jennifer Warnes).  How in the world can such differences be justified?  If anyone can explain the pricing of LP's please chime in.

[Wayner]

Scott,

I think it's cause they can get it. I personally spend the biggest share of my money on used. You have to be careful and I do occasionally get burned by unseen defects, but pitchin a $5 dollar album once in a while is maybe the name of the game. One time I came home with 10 LP's for $20. 5 where mint, 3 were very good, one ok and the last was crap. One of the albums was one of my favorite (that I had on CD) that I would never thought I would find on LP. It was by Chris Isaak, Heart Shaped World. What a recording! I would have paid $50 for that, but I got it for $2.

W  aa

[Scott F.]

You guys are right. It does make you wonder about the cost of some LPs out there. On the other hand when somebody like Stan Ricker gets a hold of the master tapes, suddenly an OK sounding LP becomes literally stellar sounding. I should probably qualify that a little further to state that Stan's latest modified cutting head stands head and shoulders above anyone elses in terms of sound quality.

Some of the increased costs lie with Stan (or their counterparts) in the industry though again it should be noted that these guys don't charge that much (relatively speaking) for their services. I would also assume that the premium packaging it partly to blame for the increased costs but that still doesn't justify some of the near $50 price tags for new vinyl.

I guess we have to write it off as capitalism at its best. If somebody wants that particular release enough, they'll pay the asking price, regardless. I know I've done it on (more than) several occasions myself. Did I really need that remastered Tull Aqualung that sits beside my four other copies? No but I did it anyway in hopes that the remaster was better. In some cases they are considerably better. Many times they aren't which really sucks. I've pretty well limited my remastered purchases to stuff that Stan does because I know it will sound superior to the original.

When it comes to digital or analog masters, it is really varied. Although 3M (BASF?) shut down their tape plant in Mississippi (Alabama?) I heard it reopened and is supplying tape to the faithful. I can tell you that your Neil Young Are You Passionate is tape. NEil has been quite vocal about hating digital anything.

I can say that I've heard some extremely good sounding vinyl cut from digital masters. Many of the early ones sucked....like a Hoover. As Wayner mentioned, so much depends on who is manning the controls.

I just picked up a few new releases last weekend. I think the 'industry' is finally "getting it". They are selling the LP with a voucher to download the same album in MP3 format. Granted, MP3s are what they are but it looks like they are trying to capitalize on the whole retro vinyl resurgence. The couple of new releases were the latest from Los Lonely Boys (it sucks) and one from the lead singer of Menomena (different but OK). Both were around $15, just about the same price as a CD. If they would do this with all new releases, I'd buy most everything new on vinyl.

[TheChairGuy]

How in the world can such differences be justified?  If anyone can explain the pricing of LP's please chime in.

Few pressing plants left...and increasing demand.  The big guys get preferential rates to keep the plants pressing full-time....leaving the little guys to scramble for production capacity.

See the travails of Classic Records here: http://www.classicrecords.com/blog/index.cfm?archiveyear=2008&archivemonth=9

Once a few new plants open and press new vinyl, and or demand falls off (while oil remains steady at under $100 barrel), we'll have better costs on new records.

That's how markets work - always have, nearly always will (unless folks add 'apparati' that tamper with the natural order of things)

John

[TONEPUB]

And this is why it will be difficult if not impossible to ever get kids interested in
LP's again (at least new ones) because the average kid isn't going to spend
20-50 bucks on an album....

[WGH]

Its been exciting to see the new wave of LP new issues and re-issues coming on the market. It started as a trickle  a few years ago and I took the opportunity to purchase LP versions of several releases, eg. Richard Thompson's "The Old Kit Bag", Niel young's "Are you Passionate", among others, to add to my collection.

Once in a while I break down and get a new LP, but lately all my "new" music is found at record swap meets. Tucson is lucky enough to have a least three big meets a year where dozens of vendors and collectors display their wares. No need to pay for high priced re-issues when the original, usually in perfect condition, is available for $4-$10. I have seen both male and female teenagers and 20-somethings at these meets stocking up on all the music we grew up with in the 70's, 80's and 90's. They are not buying one $50 album but ten $5 albums at a time.

Wayne

[JimJ]

They are not buying one $50 album but ten $5 albums at a time.

Bingo.

I only have one higher priced repress, and it was a gift, I didn't go out and buy it. The market for $5 and under vinyl is amazing, and that's well within the reach of people my age.

[twitch54]

I don't get it. LP pricing seems to be all over the map, from $12 (Shelby Lynne) to $80 (Jennifer Warnes).  How in the world can such differences be justified?  If anyone can explain the pricing of LP's please chime in.

Shelby Lynne is a single , whereas J Warnes (Blue Raincoat) is three LP's and a much better pressing to boot. As Wayner said, alot of marketing hype with the new re-releases as well, so they just 'get it'. I also suspect the material cost, not only for the Lp but jacketing, etc has got to be more than digital.

Regardles of the perceived high prices for LP's the real 'scam' continues to be the high prices for CD's, just as bad(as LP's) in alot of cases as well.

[JimJ]

There's a bypass for CDs, though...you can go online and get the FLAC most likely if it's a high-profile artist. Needledrops notwithstanding, LPs can't make that claim. So if you want the untouched LPs that haven't been passed through someone else's system, you're pretty much forced to buy them in some way.

Not saying that's a bad thing at all, I think the physical medium of LP is part of what makes it so cool, and I'm glad the used vinyl market is so reasonable

[TONEPUB]

Unfortunately, due to the "vinyl resurgence", most of the really good vinyl is gone
and what's left is commanding a very high price.

Most of the 5 dollar LP's out there are not awesome pressings.  It's fun to collect
either way, but if it's major sound quality you're after, those records are getting
harder and harder to find.

It's not that I don't love analog, but I haven't bought much stuff of any quality
for $5 in a long time.  The good stuff has been well picked through.  However,
if you live somewhere a little off the beaten path, there's still hope!

[toocool4]

You guys are lucky you live in America, I live in the UK and the price of everything is high anyway.
Most vinyl are about £12 ($19) - £18 ($28) and the good 140 – 200 gram one’s are £20 ($31) - £50 + ($79+).
Like Wayner say’s in the UK anyway they charge these prices because we don’t complain we just pay for it.

I often pickup new vinyl while travelling in Germany as they are more reasonable price.

Second-hand one’s are better but can still be pricey too.

Also like Scott F says these days a lot of LP’s / 12” singles you get you the option to download mp3 for free.

One of the last LP’s I pickup was The B52’s - Funplex it contained the CD and mp3 versions as well. 12” of Mr Scruff came with a code to download the mp3 version.

The only problem with getting a CD along with the LP was I don’t have a CD player.

Going back to the original question “Analogue or Not”, like most people here have said I’ve heard good a bad mastering of both. I just hope every time I pickup a new vinyl it’s a good mastering and pressing.
 
Chris 

[Wayner]

As some of you may know, I stumbled onto a 1000 piece collection about 3 years ago and bought the lot.

There certainly were some buried treasures in there like Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of the Moon on MOFI......with zero defects, not even a pop. I have played this album once. I also picked up most of Niel Young's catalog, along with his brother, Rusty Young. Also got a lot of Roxy Music and almost the entire Dylan collection. Most are German or UK pressings.

This was quite a find, but collections are out there. The lady I bought from was the mom of a guy stationed in Germany. He put everyting he bought on reel to reel and put the records away. They are all mint.

I guess I'm saying to go find those collections! Put an ad in the local paper, you might be surprised the next time your phone rings. I am currently working on another smaller collection (the mom's other son).

Wayner 

[JackD201]

Finding NM/NMs in the $5 sections is back breaking work but not impossible. I've had luck in big stores like Amoeba in San Francisco and little stores like Jelly's in Hawaii. My father-in-law got a few from a private library that closed down.

As for LPs that are not purely AAA, there are quite a few digitally recorded and mastered LPs that are quite good. Sony/Columbia's DM Mastersound series comes to mind not to mention quite a few from M&K and Telarc. So I tend to ignore the "digital" part and judge the LPs on a case to case basis. One LP I found disappointing was Ray Charles' Genius Loves Company. It just didn't sound right. I ran it perhaps five times on a RCM but it still sounded gritty. Thinking it might be residue from the pressing plant I even tried digging the imagined gunk out with a spherical MM cart. Still that which made it sound not quite right was something familiar. I opened the gatefold and read the liner notes. It turns out it was recorded on Protools. Oh well. That was that.