4b-nrb and Torus

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robb

4b-nrb and Torus
« on: 8 Nov 2008, 04:16 am »
Hello--I am a proud owner of a 4b-nrb from about 1990.

Was wondering if there would be any improvement in sound by adding a Torus power conditioner?---(the owners' manual says of course, not to use anything between the amp and the wall.)  If so, what Torus conditioner would be of benefit.

Thanks for any suggestions

rob

drummermitchell

Re: 4b-nrb and Torus
« Reply #1 on: 8 Nov 2008, 04:54 am »
There is quite a bit of info on this site and of course the bryston site.
James can help you as to which Torus you would need,especially if you are going to install more amps.
i did that and I went from a 15a Balanced to a 20a Balanced,Kept the 20a,traded the 15a in on a 60a balanced.I guess I'm a tad overkill as the 20a is feeding just my components +2X4Bssts and the 60a for
the 3X7B-ssts and sub.As far as improvent the Torus is a HUGE,HUGE improvement.
They are a no sell audio piece for me.I find they are a great investment, musically speaking.

James Tanner

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Re: 4b-nrb and Torus
« Reply #2 on: 8 Nov 2008, 05:35 am »
Hello--I am a proud owner of a 4b-nrb from about 1990.

Was wondering if there would be any improvement in sound by adding a Torus power conditioner?---(the owners' manual says of course, not to use anything between the amp and the wall.)  If so, what Torus conditioner would be of benefit.

Thanks for any suggestions

rob

Hi Robb,

The 4B NRB can draw 7 amps max at full power into 8 ohms so a 10 amp or more Torus would be the best match.

james

alexone

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Re: 4b-nrb and Torus
« Reply #3 on: 8 Nov 2008, 06:07 am »
 James,

correct me if i am wrong but i think Bryston used to recommend just to plug the amp's powercord directly into the wallsocket. and that there is NO need for something 'in between' like a power conditioner...

i understand your point when you say that a wallsocket cannot provide the maximum power an amp would need in certain moments.

any more reasons to go for a torus?


al.

James Tanner

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Re: 4b-nrb and Torus
« Reply #4 on: 8 Nov 2008, 12:49 pm »
Torus Power ISOLATION Unit


The concern Bryston had with a lot of power line conditioners available in the market was that many of them could restrict the current available to the amplifier. An amplifier can draw very high peak current, and wants to 'see' a very low impedance high current source from the power line. In fact, we even stated in our owners manuals not to plug our amplifiers into power conditioners. The Transformer based line conditioners we tested were too small to supply the peak current required and many of them were just Filters and did not provide Isolation -(Isolation means there is no mechanical connection between the outside power grid and your inside system power supply).

Also most of the surge protection was done using MOV’s, which are sacrificial and eventually will be destroyed with repeated spikes. Other issues with these MOVs is that they allow much more voltage through before they reacted (typically 300 volts and higher) and they shunt the voltage spikes to ground.

So we decided to try and develop a powerline Conditioner, Isolation and Protection unit that would not have the restrictions of the many units currently on the market from an amplifier performance perspective.
 
Benefits of Torus Power Isolation Units:

Benefit #1:
Very low source impedance and high current for the power amplifier
Torus power isolation units present low impedance to any electronic device that is connected to them. A Single 20 amp Torus PIU has an output impedance of 0.2 ohms and can deliver 400 amp peaks (instantaneous current). The 100 amp unit only has .04 Ohms of output impedance. A typical 200 watt audio power amplifier demands 10 amps RMS current from a 120 volt line (1200VA) but may demand up to 50 amp instantaneous peaks. The standard residential wall receptacle can't supply the 50 amp peaks because they typically have higher nominal impedance. A Torus 20 amp PIU plugged into the same wall plug can supply these peak current requirements quite easily.

Benefit #2:
Power surge protection using Series Mode Surge Suppression rather than MOV's
The Torus power products use the finest, most elaborate surge suppression technology available. Series Mode Surge Suppression does not shunt the spike to ground like MOV's do, and therefore the ground is infinitely more stable in a Torus power device. Additionally, most MOV-based surge suppression units allow as much as 300 volts through to the protected components, easily enough to do substantial damage, where as Torus surge suppression has clamping voltage onset of around 2V above peak nominal voltage. Torus units are built to meet 6000 volts, 3000 amps at 1000 repeats standard.

Benefit #3:
Total isolation from outside power grid:
Torus power products provide isolation through its finest designed toroidal transformer between the outside power grid and the devices being protected. Such isolation helps to reject external noise sources such as motors, lights, and dimmers commonly  found in the home environment. Torus power products provide noise filtering at a range from approximately 2000Hz to over 1MHz – other regular transformer based products do not start operating until nearly 10,000 Hz.

Benefit #4:
High Power Capability:
There are 15 models of Torus power products available ranging from 2.5 amps to 100 amps and 120/240 Volts.  Torus has recently introduced NEMA wall-mount units, which are typically placed at the hydro panel for whole-house or whole-room power line isolation and protection.

Benefit# 5:
Low Noise:
Torus products utilize Plitron ‘LONO’ (Low Noise) transformer design technology that eliminates audible noise in the power transformer regardless of line conditions, DC offset and over-voltage.  Torus products perform at the NC10 level measured on the standard NC (Noise Criteria) – which makes them suitable for use in very quiet environments such as professional recording and broadcast studios.

Benefit # 6:
Cleaner Power:
Torus products utilize Plitron “NBT” (Narrow Bandwidth Technology)  to attenuate differential and common-mode noise without external circuits or components, and starting at a lower corner frequency (2Khz) than other systems. 

Benefit #7:
Magnetic Transfer of Power:
There is no electric (ohmic) connection between the outside power grid and the equipment plugged into the Torus and power is transferred magnetically. Magnetic transfer of power eliminates the effect of the source and the line impedance and also eliminates the transfer of DC components to the equipment. Torus is capable of filtering noise with the staring rate of 12 dB/decade from 5k Hz to over 1M Hz. Other types of filtering start to work from about 20k Hz with lower starting attenuation rate and also restrict the power transfer because of its series connection nature, therefore limitation in maximum current as well, around 20A.



robb

Re: 4b-nrb and Torus
« Reply #5 on: 8 Nov 2008, 04:03 pm »
Thanks everyone for the suggestions, and to James for the throrough reply, and model of Torus to use for my 4b-nrb.

But I need to know how this Torus will improve the sound ? Will it result in better square wave response from the 4b-nrb resulting in quicker transients? , better tracking of the input signal?, and better dynamics?

I guess maybe I'm confused how a power conditioner can result in improvement in sound quality, other than noise reduction?.

Thanks for any thoughts

Rob


b5pt9

Re: 4b-nrb and Torus
« Reply #6 on: 8 Nov 2008, 04:26 pm »
Hi robb,

I don't have the Torus but last weekend I did install a large isolation transformer / power conditioner in the basement and swung my audio system 120V receptacle wiring onto the outlet of this conditioner.

I believe this device has similar qualities to the Torus, ie: lots of energy stored in the magnetic field of the transformer and hence ability to drive several hundred amps for short duration (several electrical cycles).

Although I don't have much listening time yet, my immediate impression was the very low bass was "looser", more effortless and more free feeling.  As if the amp (4BSST) was previously being slightly choked back on it's ability to accurately track very low-frequency information.

Hope this help a bit, cheers.

drummermitchell

Re: 4b-nrb and Torus
« Reply #7 on: 8 Nov 2008, 04:34 pm »
As for me, I can only describe it as
1-you've been riding a Honda 90 for years and then you have the opportunity
   to sit on a 1200 Harley and twist the throttle(feeling of unleashed power and lots of it).
It's hard to describe but the sound is full of Authority,power.
I'd see if your audio dealer would let you try one out and you can hear what she'll do for your music.
My audio dealer lets me try  components on loan to try out.                                                             To me a MAJOR upgrade and I'll never sell em.One of the few that I get right excited about.

robb

Re: 4b-nrb and Torus
« Reply #8 on: 12 Nov 2008, 02:56 am »
Thanks for your thoughts on sound improvement.  So I guess I can expect better bass transients.

Was there any improvement in high frequency transients?--like percussive instruments--I am the most sensitive to these--

Rob