[tubesforever]

I have been fighting back and forth with my Clarinet passive component pieces. 

First Dynamicaps, then Mundorf SIO, then SIO with teflon, then Jupiters, then Jupiters with teflon, and then back to SIO and Teflon.  I have been trying to find a cap or combination of caps that allows me to just sit back and relax like I did with the Dynamicap and teflon cap mix.  However I cannot give up the Mundorf SIO caps.  They are superb pieces.  They added deeper bass, more space, more detail and goose bumps.  I like the goose bumps the best.   

Some have been asking me about the Jupiter caps I tried.  I had them solo in the coupling cap position for a week.   The sound was full and rich sounding.  They had a weird noisy sound floor.  Almost like tape hiss corrected with Dolby B or C.  They exhibited expressive bass, midbass, and delivered vocal magic in spades. 

However I lost a great deal of dynamics.  So much so that after a week I added the .10uf teflons.  The dynamics were still nowhere to be found.  Worse, the Jupiters just cannot carry the highs unless you really starve the H+.  If I got it down to 5.25 volts the Jupiters sounded a little more neutral from top to bottom.  This effected the dynamics even more.  I needed to try something different. 

I went back to SIO and teflon at the coupling cap postition.  However, now I was missing the deep bass and midbass of the Jupiters.  What is a guy to do when you want everything?   I thought why not try those Jupiters and teflons as B+ Bypass caps?   



After an hour of sheer distortion out they came.  This was a disaster.     I am not sure what is happening with the 327 volts going across the beeswax and aluminum, but the Jupiters just cannot take it. 

My advice to you is that if you plan on trying these Jupiters keep them in the signal path.  They were very happy there.  In fact if your system is hot or dry these Jupiters might be one possible road to perfection.  System matching is everything.

After removing the Jupiters in the B+ position I thought about trying a .47 teflon and a .47 K40Y9 PIO but I kept thinking about the space aspects of these big teflons. 

I decided to try a solo pair of SIO 1.0 as the B+ bypass caps.  Things sounded great.  I kept thinking this is exactly what Jim Hagerman is talking about when he says every single component on his board is important.  I can confirm this first hand. 

Back to the coupling caps, I mentioned I am back to SIO and teflon.  However this has a bit of a twist.  I am using a .82uf SIO and a .22uf FT-3 cap.  The dynamics picked up a lot during the two weeks of break in.  The extra surface area in the larger .22 teflon allows drums and percussion to sound superb in every way.  Rock and roll sounds superb and Jazz kicks up its heels.  I love classical music and the .22 teflons really deliver in a big expressive way.  These are not coming out!

Interesingly, the teflons in .22uf value do not do deliver the clarity in the highs as I was getting with the 1.0 SIO and 0.10uf Teflon.   Perhaps the .22uf have a different sonic characteristic than the .10uf caps in regards to the highs.  After two weeks of break in I recorded some stuff and compared the cdr's to the 1.0 SIO and 0.10uf teflons.  I am definitely tilted down up top. 

I like the bass growl from bowed string bass with the .22 teflons a lot more.  I also like the dynamics more.  I kept thinking why not just go back to the 1.0 SIO .10 teflon match up?  It sounded great.  Well I am not sure after hearing this level of dynamics I could step back.  I really like the timbre of the .82 SIO with .22uf teflons. 

OMalley mentioned his DAC and how using an FT-1 perked up the highs in a way he enjoyed.  I decided to solder in a pair of the FT-1 0.01uf baby teflons.  This does deliver more sparkle up top but without the grain and glare I got when doing this with a silver mica. 



I will give these a couple more weeks before declaring anything one way or the other.

The big change is my Clarinet in my line of thinking was timbre matching the coupling caps with the B+ bypass caps.   Before I had been using a K40Y9 0.22uf 400v PIO and a 0.10 teflon.  The Clarinet just did not seem quite expressive as when I had been using 1.0 Dynamicaps and teflons at the coupling and the Dynamicaps and teflons at the B+.  This was a great combo.  However going back to Dynamicaps is not an option for me.  The SIO give me the space and detail I enjoy.  Their bass response is better and they have a smoothness and richness that make for goose bumps. 



This is a tight fitting sandwich but it sure does deliver space, depth, and impact.  I did not know the B+ was so darn criticical.  It is.  There is more detail but without any kind of analytical nasties.    I couldn't be happier.

However there is a cost involved...the bottom line is this costs more money.  The SIO 1.0 are about 75 dollars or so and the .82 are at least 65.  So this is not an inexpensive tweak.   I got my SIO at Parts Connexion.  You can get Jupiters there as well.

If it were me trying to keep things a little more sane on the board.  I would use 1.0uf with .10 teflons at both the coupling and the B+ positions.  Size is better, dynamics will still be off the chart good and you probably won't need the FT-1 caps to get back some air.

I will report more as these FT-1 and .22 FT-3 caps continue to break in.  Right now everything sounds better.     

Cheers!

[MusicMtnMonkey]

Thanks for sharing, I've enjoyed reading about your capacitor adventures 

I'm gonna have to read this again to digest it all.  The economy has caused me to be more patient than expected acquiring parts for my CASTANET, but I'm getting closer.  I was thinking I might be more likely to try the FT-3's on the power supply or bypassing the 1uf caps instead of directly in the signal path.  Is the "B+" part of the "power supply".

[tubesforever]

The power rectifier tube outputs approx 385 volts to the B+ supply.  These feed the tubes.  On the Clarinet there are three B+ capacitors.  All are 47uf 450 volt electrolytics.  Jim Hagerman's design provides a space to use a film cap to bypass the electrolytic.

I would have thought this bypass might be less critical to the sound than a cap in the direct circuit pathway but I was wrong.

It effects the sound every bit as much. 

This means more money for my projects.  These SIO pieces are not cheap.  The Cornet 2 will require 4 of the 1.0uf caps.  I think these are almost 80 dollars each....gulp....

Cheers!

[MusicMtnMonkey]

Sure you need to use SIO for power supply functions??  I'd wonder if power supply and parts out of the signal path, does it matter more how "quiet" they are instead of how they affect the sound when part of the signal path.  Would a cheaper cap (but still quality, but possibly not "boutique") that is quiet, bypassed by an FT-3 produce the same or better results for "power supply" capacitors than using $$$SIO caps??

Is it valid to say that the specifications of a capacitor and quietness matter more for power supply applications, better not to use boutique caps here?  While boutique caps affect on the sound is most important in signal path applications??

[PatOMalley]

I like the small value FT-1 on the Jupiter's.
It allows most of the big value cap to come through, drum taps have the skin, etc, but the top adds some sparkle without the edge that makes it almost seem a part of the original sound. As these things settle in they disappear and become a natural extension rather than the larger .1uF value which takes over the midrange.

Having fooled with these teflons I think that they grab your attention with dynamics but are too slick for the midrange. I could just as easily live without them entirely as the Jupiter's are really all that. (I expect the Mundorf's are as well.)

But for the Cornet2 I will go with the Obbligato aluminum foil at output and leave some money for other things. And no bypass. I'd like that phono pre to have a warm twist.

[tubesforever]

"Tell me it ain't so?"     Yep....this is gonna cost me more money!

When I originally built my Cornet 2 I wasn't quite sure about the B+ bypass caps.  However I built it with all AuriCaps just as recommended.  For my system the AuriCaps were a bit dark and congested.  So I went with all Dynamicaps.  Now things were a little more open and vital.

Then I got these crazy teflon caps and my world turned upside down.  I tried the FT-3 caps because at 6.00 each I felt I couldn't miss this opportunity to hear what teflon does to the sound.  Not all teflons are built alike.  The FT-3 teflons use aluminum foil separated by teflon.  Teflon is nearly a perfect dielectric (according to my dad the aerospace engineer).  I expected a fast and detailed portrayal of transient response.  However what bowled me over was the incredible level of dynamics.  I have not heard percussion better with any capacitor type in my lifetime.

In my own system, the FT-3 teflons sound best when married to another warmer sounding cap.  Whether that is an AuriCap, Dynamicap,  PIO caps or the SIO caps the teflon improves them all.

I wanted my Clarinet to have a wider and taller soundstage so I tried the SIO caps.  These were 57 bucks each when I started this project.  They are a lot more now.  They take a LONG long LONG time to break in.  I think this was about 200 hours or so.  

Now for some technical information on how I am evaluating my passive parts.  With my Clarinet I am voicing this with CD's where I also own the LP.  When I hear the Clarinet and a CD sound like the Cornet 2 and an LP, meaning that the instruments convey the same sonic timbre then I know I am getting somewhere.  I have a purely passive preamp I can slide into my system.  I can record the Clarinet playing a CD to cdr and compare cuts side by side with an LP playing through the Cornet 2 and my passive preamp.

I was having a tough time getting my Cornet 2 and Clarinet to sound the same for specific instruments on specific pieces.  When I took a chance and put the Mundorf SIO 1.0uf as the B+ bypass cap on my Clarinet I was not expecting a night and day kind of change in sound.  I was wrong.  The sound is greatly improved and it is timbre matching the Cornet 2 much better.  BTW the C2 has teflon and Dynamicaps on the B+....where is the SIO timbre match there?   Does that mean the 1.0 in the C2 will do the same or throw everthing out the window all over again?    

Many questions.

What I can say is that I am really cheap.  It might not seem that way with a Clarinet with nearly a thousand dollars invested but I am after frying really big and expensive fish.  My goals were hitting the high end and I think I am there with some room to spare.
  
I am not expecting others to rush out and pay this kind of money for SIO caps.  They should just buy one pair for the signal output cap and take a listen in their system.  Is the sound good, better, or the best it has sounded?  Then it would make sense to plunk down 320 dollars more to have the whole enchilada.  

In my case I removed the 1.0 SIO and replaced it with a ..82 SIO and .22 teflon in the final signal cap.  This gave me the 1.0 pair to try in the B+ position.  Call this dumb luck.    

Right now I am evaluating a .47 SIO and a .47 teflon in the final signal coupling stage of my Cornet 2.  This gives me enough SIO caps to actually try the 1.0 uf SIO in all the B+ bypass positions on the C2 board.  I had an extra pair of 1.0 SIO I was intending to use for a tube amp upgrade.  Perhaps I will try this within a couple weeks and let everyone know.  

BTW if anyone out here has a Hagerman that sounds top notch either with or without teflon, then just make sure you match the B+ caps to match your output signal caps.  This is the point of my posting.  With one cautionary note.  Do not use the Jupiters as a B+ bypass cap.  That was a total disaster. 

Each of our systems has its own personality and requires help in one or more areas.  In mine I need a great deal of space.  I sit only 7 ft from the speakers so they have to spread the image or they sound too much like a headphone.   

From my system's perspective and from my personal taste, paying 80 buck a cap for the B+ might sound like a lot.  It certainly is more than I planned to pay or wanted to pay.  However that might be what it takes to get my Hagermans sounding world class in my system.  

I have already surpassed a Steelhead, a Pass Xono, a Thor, and a Lamm.  These are really outstanding phono sections.  Maybe with the SIO caps in the B+ bypass positions I can now go after the really expensive top dollar equipment?  

The Hagerman equipment is basically a DIY dream come true.  Build it your way.  It is easy to change and modify to your taste and your budget over your lifetime.  For me, the project has just become a little more expensive.

Cheers!

[WGH]

tubes - you still haven't tried the Sonicaps? I use the Gen 1's for the B+ caps bypassed by the .1uF FT-3's (Cornet2) and get a very wide soundstage that extends slightly to the outside of the speakers.

Sonic Craft has them for $11.50 each which won't break the bank like the large Mundorf SIO's ($47.40 each). The 1uF Sonicap Gen 1's are also a popular cap so if you kept the leads long you could easily re-sell them if they don't work out.

But if you are in love with the Mondorf's (and who wouldn't be?), then follow your heart.

Wayne

[amandarae]

Hello Jim,

Thanks for continuing your experimentation and sharing the results to us.  I am impress to say the least.  I too owned a Pass Xono long time ago.   Sold that and bought a Trumpet.  When The Cornet 2 gave me the same sound I was looking for in a phono preamp that suit my system, sold the Trumpet to a very close friend of mine with a provision that I will get the first crack if he decided to let it go (I need it in the furure as I add more TT's  )

Anyways, back to yout post....

BTW if anyone out here has a Hagerman that sounds top notch either with or without teflon, then just make sure you match the B+ caps to match your output signal caps.  This is the point of my posting.  

I was thinking if the fact that the Mundorf is an SIO, and using oil caps on the B+ decoupling stages was the reason why the sound changes for the better.  I know for a fact that oil in this position on my other projects have a different effect on the sound of the amp/preamp compared to using poly, teflon, or electrolytic.   If my reasoning holds water, it is also possible that changing the B+ decoupling resistors from each stages should also have an effect, say a carbon composition compared to metal oxide, (with the exception of the heater PSU decoupling resistors since we are using IDHT tubes anyway) the tone of the sound (more on the warm side).   What do you think?

Maybe I can try it myself since I have 630 VDC Jensen Copper foils and aluminum foil in oil and that the chassis I have from Jim makes it easier to do an outboard experimentation since there are holes on the side where I can slide the wires and the B+ decoupling caps are on the outside edge of the pcb.  Plus, I have Allen Bradley's in higher wattage rating which I can use.



regards,

Abe

[tubesforever]

WGH, I would like to try the Sonicap Platinums sometime soon.  The Sonicap gen 1 caps sound very good in a friends Cornet and Cornet 2. 

The Mundorfs have more space than anything else I have evaluated.  I sit 7-8 ft from my speakers so the more I can get them to image spacially the better my listening pleasure.

The Mundorfs sound solid state when first breaking in, and then really mellow out.  They take about 100-200 hours to get to the mellow stage. 

I am very pleased with the SIO at the coupling cap and B+ of the Clarinet.  If I have time I might try SIO in the Cornet 2 B+ positions.  I have enough to pull it off.

Abe, I see your points and I agree that this is something we should test more and report.

I use Kiwami 2 watt resistors on my Cornet 2 reconfigurement.  They sound as good as the Mills wire wounds and the Kiwami's were only 1.10 each and the Mills were 4.95 each.  I want to try some PRP resistors since these would match up nicely with my S102 bulk foil nude Vishays.  These are 65 cents at Partsconnexion.    Jim is using all Dale metal films in his Trumpet build.

Resistors and capacitors all filter sound.  I doubt that the SIO and teflon caps would sound the same in a dry or bright system.  That is probably why a couple of folks here have removed the teflons from their equipment.  It is important to system match these component pieces. 

I am using Kiwami carbon comps for my B+ decoupling and B+ step down resistors on my Cornet 2 and Mills wire wounds on the Clarinet.  I would not pay extra for the Mills ever again.  The Kiwami's sound superb.

Matching passive components to our system requirements is what makes me love DIY so much.  We can experiment to find the best overall sound that we enjoy the most.