[jrun]

Hello everyone,

  I have a Basis 1400 with the Rega 1000 tonearm and a Benz Micro Glider cartridge.  I've had this equipment for approx. 4 years and frankly I don't hear the analogue magic that I read so much about.  I have decided to ask for some advice and either do some equipment upgrading or simply go back through the setup very carefully and try to correct some things.  Has anyone used the Michael Fremer turntable setup dvd?  Was it worth the money?  I am also looking at some setup tools like the Mint Tractor.  I have a Acurus P10 phono stage that recently just quit working, and I am using the phono stage in my Audio Space ref. 3 integrated for the time being.  Any suggestions for a giant killer phono stage in the ~$1000 new or used range?  Speakers are Von Schweikert VR4sr.  Thanks in advance for any help.

                                                                                                        jrun

[TheChairGuy]

jrun,

Was your tune-age better or worse with the recently departed phono preamp?

I have what I maintain is a killer phono preamp in a modded Advent 300 from Sound of the Wood: http://soundofthewood.com/preamptuners.html

I paid just a bit over $1000.00 for it and it includes FM radio (very nice) headphone amp and jack, one line input and a most terrific phono section (solid state) that I have been treated to in my abode.  It has fully adjustable 0-100K resistance loading via a potentiometer to dial in the exact amount of resistive (electrical) damping needed for your Benz.  It's an important nuance to vinyl playback that is often missed to the detriment of sonics.  Your Benz may well need higher or lower resistance to sound it's best.

The Advent has a feeble 15watt amp, too (it is a receiver with preamp in and amp out functions), but among it's talents...the amp part is it's weakest link.  So, it can make an ideal phono amp (with FM and headphone) or a full function amp with phono, line, FM, and headphone capabilities.  It sounds good to me - stout, detailed (I'm not one that can give flowery descriptions to midrange sounds and the like....but I never 'wince' while listening, and that's a good thing  )

Personally, and this is certainly subjective, I didn't get the 'magic' of vinyl until I settled out the speed variation issue.  If your Basis has no outboard speed regulation, in the form of a steady 60HZ sine wave fed to your AC synchronous motor, than what you have now is the magic of cassette playback at hand   

You want as close to rock-reliable, CD-type speed control with vinyl before you hear it's glory.

Not knowing your system, nor interoperability of components or your subjective needs as a listen - but just taking a stab at it - I think that (like me) redbook has spoiled you for speed control and your vinyl rig ain't measuring up in that regard.  Proper set-up, et all, will help a bit if your off on these things...as will correct resistive damping...but, until, you get the speed down pat you're music will sound distance, indistinct, bass a bit limp, images blurry, etc. 

Fix the speed issue and so much snaps into place (for me) 

John

[WGH]

I never heard a Basis 1400 so I don't know if it has any magic in it, but accurate speed control is a absolute necessity. An affordable speed controller would be a good place to start. I use a Harmon/Kardon T55C table which has a Quartz Lock button, but the micro-adjustments it makes to control the speed totally destroys the soundstage and there is no magic, turn QL off and the magic returns. I also built an outboard power supply for the table which further stabilized the soundstage and increased the magic factor.

As for a giant killer phono stage, there is only one that I am aware of: a tweaked out Hagerman Cornet2 for about $800. You have to build it yourself or find a helpful geek but when finished the phono pre-amp will easily equal $5000 units.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=58941.msg523190#msg523190

Wayne

[TONEPUB]

I'd also suggest the Acoustic Sounds test record.

http://store.acousticsounds.com/browse_detail.cfm?Title_ID=35532

Mikey's disc is good, but he only gets you in the ballpark.  He mentions
that "the last 20% isn't really that important".

While I hate to agree with the great one, but that's another area where
the analog magic resides.  And I completely agree with John on speed
stability too.  Some people are more sensitive to pitch variations than
others and if you are one of those people it will drive you straight up
the wall.

But the ability to really dial in VTA, VTF, anti skate and azimuth will
amaze you at how much more performance you still have in the turntable
you now own.

The AP record and a digital multimeter (with a frequency meter) along
with about an hour of your time will take your analog setup to
a new level of greatness.

I use this on every table we set up.  It's awesome...

[Wayner]

Stylus location, offset angle and azmuth are factors few understand and I think most have wrong. With most arms, the mounting screws for your cartridge should end up some where really close to the center of the slots in the arm. It's really hard to get into stylus position without knowing your arm specifications, So I am hesitant. However, I am a geometrical wizard, and with a few arm specifications, can get the stylus to be in the right spot.

3 things need to be known:

1) distance from tonearm pivot (centerline) to turntable spindle. (or overall tonearm length from pivot center to stylus).
2) overhang distance (the distance that the stylus design is from the centerline of the platter spindle). usually about 3/4".
3) offset angle of the cartridge.

If you have this information, I can make an aligment card for you.

Wayner

[bacobits1]

I have been running also for the past 4 years a Basis 1400 , RB 300, Incognito wired and Michelle Techno weight all on a custom sized 2" Maple butcher block with the motor sitting on an isolated separate block.
I have the Basis clamp too.
Also running the Benz Glider into a EE Mini Max Phono Pre, NOS tubes all with HGA Silver interconnects.

First of all, I found that the Benz Glider is just a smidge below level on my RB300. It is sensitive to VTF (mine at 1.7 with digital scale) and antiskate adjustments. I did find the Benz for some reason a bitch to set up. It took some time, like 3 weeks of listening. I use a small 1" long clock bubble level on the arm to find where level is to start.
A lined Index Card is my old method and is not easy to use since the Rega arms are tapered.
It can be used but causes a bit more listening and playing around.
I use the db Systems protractor or an "Enjoy the Music" free protractor.
The speed on the Basis is very good to my ear although I have not checked it with a strobe.
The Standard VPI MKIII has a clock motor and the Rega 3's I'm sure you have read are really not good at all for speed accuracy.
I have had them both. The Incognito rewiring made a very nice difference as did the Techno Weight.
NOS tubes in the EE Mini Max had brought this table equal to and better than CD depending on the quality of vinyl.

OH, I also paid A.J. Conti $47 for that damn expensive oil he sells. WTF is it Whale oil? I don't think soooo.
It did make a difference in the bearing when I replaced the oil. I did not replace my belt with the newer clear "super belt" he has out for the bit much $100.

As Wayner said ya gotta play with these adjustments and listen very closely to a balance that will emerge, and snap into focus. But this goes for all tables. When it is dialed in you will know.

I hope this helps a bit.

Den

[lazydays]

Hello everyone,

  I have a Basis 1400 with the Rega 1000 tonearm and a Benz Micro Glider cartridge.  I've had this equipment for approx. 4 years and frankly I don't hear the analogue magic that I read so much about.  I have decided to ask for some advice and either do some equipment upgrading or simply go back through the setup very carefully and try to correct some things.  Has anyone used the Michael Fremer turntable setup dvd?  Was it worth the money?  I am also looking at some setup tools like the Mint Tractor.  I have a Acurus P10 phono stage that recently just quit working, and I am using the phono stage in my Audio Space ref. 3 integrated for the time being.  Any suggestions for a giant killer phono stage in the ~$1000 new or used range?  Speakers are Von Schweikert VR4sr.  Thanks in advance for any help.

                                                                                                        jrun

Call Klaus Bunge! He's got a true giant killer just hitting the market. It's not cheap at $2500, but I think you gotta spend twice that much to come close. Otherwise I'd look for a nice used Wright WP200. I use the WP100 and it's nice with lots of gain built into it. Nothing I've heard under a $1000 beats a Wright.
    I'd forget that Wally whatever it is alignment tool. The guy has ripped more people off than just about any audio equipment manufacturer, and shouldn't even be allowed to stay in business. Loves to take your money and never ships the items. A lot of folks are using Feckert (sp), but I don't have one myself. I just used the protractor that came with my arm (sme), and then ever so slightly tweeked the alignment. I level my table with two levels setting 90 degrees apart (I use a pair of 8" long levels that you can buy at Lowes). I used to align Rega arms with the Turntable Basic mirror thing, but found myself spending a lot of time tweeking it to get it to sound right. And it will get you kinda close, but not close to perfect.
    What does to sound sound like in your system? If it's sorta dull and maybe a little on the thick side I'd be looking for feed back isolation. I use a Ginko Cloud made for a VPI table, and now couldn't live without it!
gary

[TheChairGuy]

http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge-alignment-protractors.shtml

Many Rega owners over at Vinyl Engine use member Seb's Baerwald protractor (for free).

Seb is French, one of the mods over there, and has spent considerable time investigating alignment issues and a few other 'novelties' of vinyl-phooldom 

John

[jrun]

Thanks guys,

  Some great suggestions and info here.  I will buy a test record and go through the setup carefully and see where I stand.  If the sound is still lacking, I will consider a phono stage and then lastly a new cartridge.  Thanks again for all the responses.

                                                                 Jerry

[TheChairGuy]

Thanks guys,

  Some great suggestions and info here.  I will buy a test record and go through the setup carefully and see where I stand.  If the sound is still lacking, I will consider a phono stage and then lastly a new cartridge.  Thanks again for all the responses.

                                                                 Jerry

Jerry - you may still be in vinyl-purgatory if you do.  Without rather exact speed control everything you will hear will be limp and out of whack, sonically.

I was hugely happy with my Thorens TD-316 and had it for almost 15 years (1987 - 2002).  Some cartridges were better than others, my Superphon preamp was better than the couple others tried during that time, all in all I liked my Thorens (it's a capable deck, to be sure).

In 2000 I returned to this hobby (I laid off it for 6 years, had all my gear packed away, as I needed to concentrate my resources to family and building a business....as this hobby of ours is a bit distracting )

When I unpacked my gear and started listening....to the same turntable and cartridge (and gear) I had otherwise enjoyed 6 years earlier....the magic was utterly gone   It sounded limp, tepid, vanilla - and had no bounce to it.  I checked and re-checked my adjustments (both on the deck/tonearm and system-wide).  I invested in tweeks high and wide.  I upgraded my CD/Redbook front end to $4500 worth (what a waste that was) 

It didn't matter - it all sounded lousy - most of all my old friend, Thorens.  So, I sold the deck and went a few years without vinyl (fortunately, I kept my albums).  Those few years were the absolutely worst of my music-listening life....the Thorens had failed me and I was trying to coax musical magic from CD/Redbook (which is mostly a lost cause )

On almost a lark, for $50.00 on ebay, I bought an old JVC direct drive deck as I had never owned a DD deck (so un-audiophile they are) and after setting it up right and putting a $100.00 cartridge on it.....it took me seconds to realize the old vinyl magic was back!!  I filled that deck with 8 lbs of plast-i-clay and set it up on a proper isolation base and I was enjoying truly fine, exciting vinyl playback.

I think as time wore on my brain began rejecting the vinyl sounds the Thorens was offering up....as, tho CD/Redbook was a lost cause for ultimate sonic thrills, it had unerringly good speed regulation (rather perfect in that regard...from recording to playback).  Without a deck of somewhat comparable abilities for speed regulation - vinyl was a lost cause.

Direct Drive decks are not the only way to dial in near-perfect speed regulation....belt drives can do it....but, as you currently describe it, your Basis 1400 is stock in that regard.

That one embrace, that of better, tighter speed regulation of vinyl, was my ticket to sonic bliss.  I'm not a musician, nor have or know of any perfect pitch mechanism in my head....I know only that the music made with (now) 3 different direct drive decks has 'bounce' and I keep flailing away at my VPI HW-19 Mk. III to do the same and cannot get it to sing.

The VPI likely needs a $700-$1000 outboard speed box in the for of VPI's SDS...but for that kinda' money alone, you can buy a nice direct drive deck.  So, the VPI sits gathering dust while the Technics SL-1200 Mk. II competently spins music for me.

Food for considerable thought - John

[woodsyi]

I still have my Basis 1400 table.  I even ordered a 78 pulley from A.J. Conti.  The motor is strong but it need a little kick to get a 78 started.    I have tried Rega 250, 300 and Origin Encounter on this table in combination with Benz MC3, glider II, Ruby 2, Ruby 3, and Koetsu Rosewood Sig.  It's a good table that need a little TLC to make it sing.  Definitely go though and check all your set up and don't be afraid to take days at it.  I do.  It's all fun process you know.  There are two things that enhances sound further IMHO:  A tube phono-tage and a mat for the platter.  A "warm" phono-stage like Art Audio Vinyl One (Telefunken tubes) compliments the clinical presentation of this TT.  Extremephono speed mat with non-felt mat added more flesh and depth to the music but now I like the Boston Audio mat 1 more with this table.  Good luck.

[JackD201]

I'm all for your getting proper tools. Every vinyl lover should have a reliable protractor, a digital weight scale, a magnifying glass, a good small flashlight and firm but gentle hands. Every vinyl lover needs patience most of all 

Personally I like tailoring my rig's sound by playing around with the parameters and not going strictly by the book. My kind mentor offered me these words of wisdom and I hope it helps you too. He said "It's not that difficult really. If you lose your way when trying to make your rig sound good, make it sound bad! You can always work your way backwards and eventually you'll pick up the trail where you left off."

Personally I follow these steps (I use a unipivot so some steps and adjustment options may not apply)

PART 1 - My basics

1. Mount the cart fairly squarely
2. Adjust VTA as close to neutral as I can (Do this before VTF because the relative height difference of the pivot point vis a vis the stylus contact point will affect your VTF.
3. Adjust VTF smack in the middle of the cart's range
4. Align with a protractor
5. Listen to a CD (preferrably mono) just to make sure my speakers are set up with center images where they should be. Adjust if needed.
6. Only then do I turn on the table. Listen to the LP. Listen for tracking distortions. If there are then I go back to step 4. If none but if images aren't where they should be I adjust azimuth.
7. Adjust anti skate. I prefer slight inward motion with stylus on a blank sided LP. Others prefer the stylus to not move at all. All good as far as I'm concerned just as long as the motion isn't outward.

Part 2 - Fine tuning to my tastes

1. VTA - Tail up for more sparkle, Tail down for more bass. Adjust to Taste
2. VTF - Lighter within the acceptable range for more perceived speed, heavier again within the acceptable range for more solidity

Adjustments in one will affect the other so you will be ping ponging between eyeballing VTA and measuring VTF. If this starts to get to you STOP. Go do something else and return when you are in a good mood   Follow my good mentor's advice. Eventually you'll find the balance. How? You'll just know 

Practice enough and it will become second nature. I promise!

Good luck!