preamp/power amp thoughts... T8/Insight versus Ultra/Ultra

robinje · « **on:** 23 Sep 2008, 07:04 pm »

I am considering a new preamp and power amp. I wonder how these combinations differ in sound quality...

First, an all tube preamp (T8) paired with a solid state (Insight) power amp.

Second, a hybrid preamp (Ultra) paired with a hybrid (Ultra) power amp.

Would these scenarios be pretty darn close, or is the "all Ultra" combination clearly superior? If so, in what ways? The T8/Insight would be much less expensive, and seems like a good way to get a little taste of the "tubey" sound while still using an all solid state power amp. Hmmm... Anyone have any ideas on this comparison?

Thanks!

Wayner · « **Reply #1 on:** 23 Sep 2008, 07:40 pm »

I have run the T8 with 260ex and 170ex; very grandios sound!

Have never owned an Ultra.

I am currently running EC Insight into Insight 260ex......awesome!

Both systems had/have a sound of their own. I guess it's what you like. The Insigh is bit faster while the T8 bloomed real nice. I'm sure you would like any.

Wayner

gjs_cds · « **Reply #2 on:** 23 Sep 2008, 08:59 pm »

I think another angle is to take your existing gear into consideration. Since I'm loving (and will not depart with) a pair of full-range electrostats, I'm more than happy to stick with the solid state gear. (Although, I do admit that I'm tube-curious--which is why I got a tube-amp for my secondary system, which drives dipolar monkey-coffins (i.e., traditional box-enclosure loudspeakers).)

But with all that said--and I can't stress that enough--a large part of the AVA HiFi experience is gaining access to Frank's expertise. The hardware is excellent, but so is the service and advice. I'd give him a call and see what he recommends--I've always been impressed with his recommendations (and rationale).

baumer · « **Reply #3 on:** 23 Sep 2008, 09:00 pm »

I have a T8/Insight DAC/Insight 260EX set-up and the sound is fantastic. I get no harshness or graininess with digital music (I listen to everything through a Duet). There is just enough warmth with the T8. With the Insight 260 the sound is tight and precise with no muddiness.

I have heard an Ultra/Ultra set-up as well. It seemed to have a wider soundstage and better imaging than my system, but at a much higher price. Of course, the Ultra set-up was at someone else's house so YMMV.

If money was no object would i get the Ultra system? Absolutely! Do i feel as though i'm missing anything with my system? Not on your life!

Like Wayner said, "I'm sure you would like any."

Doug

martyo · « **Reply #4 on:** 23 Sep 2008, 11:09 pm »

Just to clarify, I wouldn't call the T8 "tubey" sounding at all. It's slightly softer than the Ultra and just slightly warm compared to the Ultra, but I wouldn't call it a warm sounding unit. It is rich and full and liquid. It is also quick, dynamic, extended at both extremes, and softer on the pocketbook than the Ultra. I'm not trying to minimize the Ultra. At some point I do hope to move up to an Ultra.

geezer · « **Reply #5 on:** 24 Sep 2008, 12:55 am »

I have the U/U. When my wife, initially only a casual listener, first heard it she said WOW, and since then has been listening to music much more frequently than ever before. There is no greater praise.

JerryM · « **Reply #6 on:** 24 Sep 2008, 01:30 am »

I'm running the T-8 with the Ultra 550. It is a stunning combination. When I first bought this setup, I planned on upgrading the T-8 to an Ultra. I will never do that now. I love the synergy between these units. They sound really, really, really good together. I have yet to find a song that isn't filled with emotion, dynamics, and an enveloping soundstage. A very satisfying combination to say the very least.
I'm with gjs though. Call Frank. He will offer you the best advice.
Have fun,
Jerry

Opus Flatus · « **Reply #7 on:** 24 Sep 2008, 02:03 am »

I haven't seen this combo mentioned: I have an Ultra Pre driving a U70. Bellisima! as they say in italian and I'm not Italian so it must be great. I have an Insight 240 on order and can't effin wait to get it hooked up. I suspect it will sound great. My neighbors are going to love it too the volume may be up a bit.

JerryM · « **Reply #8 on:** 24 Sep 2008, 02:13 am »

Quote from: Opus Flatus on 24 Sep 2008, 02:03 am

My neighbors are going to love it too the volume may be up a bit.

My next door neighbor is this wonderful old woman who turns 95 soon. She says I'm the quietest neighbor she's ever had!!!
Man, her and I must both be living right!

Have fun,
Jerry

TjMV3 · « **Reply #9 on:** 24 Sep 2008, 04:03 am »

Jerry and martyo, when you two compare the T-8 to the "Ultra" what are you refering to?

Isn't the T-8 Pre Amp the same as the Ultra? Or is the "T-8" an older version/model of the "Ultra T-8"?

The "T-8" you guys refer to, is that the previous model that utilized the 12AT7 tubes, before Frank/AVA changed the tubed to the 6N1P?

TjMV3 · « **Reply #10 on:** 24 Sep 2008, 04:06 am »

Oh sheesh, nevermind. I know what you mean, now. I completely forgot about the hybrid Ultra Pre Amps. Must be losing my mind:D

sueata1 · « **Reply #11 on:** 25 Sep 2008, 12:51 pm »

TjMV3

How did ya make out with the fuse delima???

Mel

TjMV3 · « **Reply #12 on:** 25 Sep 2008, 02:30 pm »

I'm waiting for the new fuses to arrive. I couldn't find any of those fuses any where locally. I called just about every place I could think of and any places suggested by the folks in that thread.

No one had them.

I had the original fuse (the one that came with the amp) tested by a local TV repair shop and the fuse was in fact dead. Frank was kind and generous to mail out two fuses to me. Should be here soon.

I also ordered a few back ups on-line, but they're not likely to be here till mid-late next week. I'm sure Frank's fuses will arrive before that.

Once I get the fuses, I will put one in, hook everything back up and see if the amp works or if the fuse blows, again. Hopefully everything will work perfectly and it will have just been a bad fuse.

I hope....I hope...I hope

pardales · « **Reply #13 on:** 25 Sep 2008, 02:31 pm »

So would there be a significant difference between the Insight EC on one hand and the entry level Insight separates on the other hand?

I.Greyhound Fan · « **Reply #14 on:** 28 Sep 2008, 12:51 pm »

I was over at Franks house the other day and listened to all three Preamps. Here's my take and Frank seemed to agree with this assessment. The Insight had more bottom end than the other 2, but the overall sound was similar except that the other 2 where smoother with slightly more detail and transparency.

The T-8 had the least bass and was more laid back in sound. The Ultra was in between but the Ultra had the smoothest sound, very liquid and better bass than the T-8 but not as much as the Insight.

If I had the money, I would go with the Ultra. If your system is lacking some bass slam then I would get the Insight. If your just looking for a smoother, transparent sound then the T-8 would be the way to go IMHO.

Dan Kolton · « **Reply #15 on:** 28 Sep 2008, 02:22 pm »

Sounds like the difference between Insight and Ultra pre-amps is pretty much like the difference in DACs. Did you think the Insight had less distortion and better dynamics than the Ultra?

Toka · « **Reply #16 on:** 28 Sep 2008, 06:39 pm »

Quote from: I.Greyhound Fan on 28 Sep 2008, 12:51 pm

I was over at Franks house the other day and listened to all three Preamps. Here's my take and Frank seemed to agree with this assessment. The Insight had more bottom end than the other 2, but the overall sound was similar except that the other 2 where smoother with slightly more detail and transparency.

The T-8 had the least bass and was more laid back in sound. The Ultra was in between but the Ultra had the smoothest sound, very liquid and better bass than the T-8 but not as much as the Insight.

Thanks for the impressions!

The comments about the bass with the Insight are most interesting...if I may read too much into it, it almost sounds like the Insight is the more "accurate" of the bunch, while the tubed units are more "natural"...fair to say? I know those words can mean different things to different people but thats the best I can come up with. And how would you rate the Insight vs. the Ultra in terms of "speed"?

BrianM · « **Reply #17 on:** 30 Sep 2008, 01:52 pm »

With either the T8 or the Ultra preamp you'll be getting a completely musical sound with no real compromises in dynamic range, fullness or quickness. The T8 may sound slightly fuller than the Ultra in fact. The Ultra does, though, provide better resolution (more transparency) and that last few degrees of tonal accuracy. My experiences are with both preamps feeding an Ultra amp.

martyo · « **Reply #18 on:** 30 Sep 2008, 02:11 pm »

Welcome back Brian, we appreciate your ears. Thanks for your impressions, you being one of the few who have owned both preamp's and had them in your system for a period of time.

BrianM · « **Reply #19 on:** 30 Sep 2008, 02:53 pm »

Hey, thanks Marty! We were computer-less for a while there and I got out of the habit of checking in. Wish I could hear the new Insight stuff some time, sounds like it would be a fascinating comparison, 'specially for those prices.